Verdict on Medjugorje nears as Commission claims apparitions are “no hoax” [Catholic Caucus]

Vatican Insider ^ | January 19, 2014

[NYer]

The Medjugorje inquiry commission has concluded its work

The dossier on the alleged apparitions of the Virgin Mary at Medjugorje has been passed on to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. The verdict could be positive albeit partial but no concrete decision has yet been reached

Giacomo Galeazzi - ANDREA TORNIELLI

vatican city

 

A verdict on the Medjugorje apparitions is not far off. The Mejugorje inquiry commission which was set up in March 2010 and is chaired by Cardinal Camillo Ruini has concluded its work. Fr. Federico Lombardi confirmed that the commission held its last meeting on Friday and the results of the inquiry will now be examined by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith headed by the Prefect Gerhard Müller.

All the material gathered, the interviews with the seers and many other witnesses, the stories told by the various people involved, expert reports and theological reflections on the messages, has been summarised in one final report and passed on to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for a careful evaluation. The report will be studied alongside other documentation which the Congregation has gathered over the course of the years.


Vatican Insider has learnt that the Commission has focused mainly on the first phase of apparitions. There is apparently no proof of any tricks, hoaxes or abuse of popular credulity. However, it is proving difficult for the Church to form a definitive verdict on the supernatural nature of a phenomenon that is ongoing.

 

Of the six seers who reported apparitions in June 1981, when they were still children or in their teens, three claim that they still see daily apparitions of the “Queen of Peace” at the same time every afternoon, wherever they happen to be at the time. These seers are: Vicka (who lives in Medjugorje), Marija (who lives in Monza) and Ivan (who lives in the US but returns to his homeland often). A fourth seer, Mirjana, sees an apparition on the second day of each month.

The large volume of messages going round poses a problem for the Commission. As does the forecasting of supernatural signs and secrets which the seers have refused to share, even with Church authorities.

Some of the Commission’s members have highlighted the need for a change of pace in the provision of pastoral care to millions of faithful who come to Medjugorje from all over the world. The Commission and Cardinal Ruini himself thanks to visits by people close to him have noticed that people really are converting to the faith or returning to the sacraments – what the Church refers to as spiritual fruits –  in a significant way.

But this alone does not a decision on the part of the Church with regard to the supernatural nature of the apparitions. In fact, over the past few months, Prefect Müller has cautioned bishops in the US to keep a close eye on meetings held by Medjugorje seers. These are often public meetings with lots of apparitions on the agenda. During last 14 November’s mass in St. Martha’s House, the Pope very eloquently said that Mary is a Mother "not a postmaster of the post office sending out messages every day." These words were addressed to those who continuously communicate messages and prophesies about the future.

The Bishop of Mostar, Ratko Peric, who also serves Medjugorje, is notoriously sceptical about the phenomenon, as was his predecessor. Then there is the age-long problem of the relations between the diocesan clergy and the Franciscan friars of Herzegovina at the time of the apparitions. A couple of solutions proposed in the recent past,  have been to restore the old diocese of Trebinje  so as to remove Medjugorje from the territory of the Mostar diocese or to create a Marian shrine that would be managed by a rector from another diocese.

[married21]

I think the important thing here is that a lot of people show up there looking for something and, especially if they are misguided, they need proper spiritual support and instruction while they are there.

So, for me, the important message was that they are going to be addressing the needs of those pilgrims.

If you look at it like a mission field, the possibilities are rich. Here are all these people who are about to go home and discover that Mary does not actually talk to them every day. So, before they go home, give them real instruction and put them on the road to spiritual progress at home in their parish.

[fatima]

If you read the link I posted you can see all the answers to this.The current Bishop met with Pope Francis on Friday in Rome.I have read a lot on this and the original priest who got the Nun pregnant and stashed her away.Do you know where she was staying.She was with a dear friend of Pope Benedict.This is the priest that the so called apparition defended.Hehehhehehe Dr.E. Michael Jones was put out of bussiness-Fidelity- with his expose.He explains how the spinning sun has been going on in that area for many years before the Apparition.When they disobeyed the Bishop that was enough for me.I no longer speak about this because it's a waste of time if the Church does not back you up.

[Bigg Red]

The Commission and Cardinal Ruini himself thanks to visits by people close to him have noticed that people really are converting to the faith or returning to the sacraments – what the Church refers to as spiritual fruits – in a significant way.

***
That is wonderful.

Had to read that sentence twice, though, as the commas seem to have fallen out during the trip across the Atlantic.)

[Scotswife]

I went to Mediugorje in the late 90’s.
I had my own personal experience - which counts for squat in these matters of course.
I didn’t realize at the time how contentious the debate was - as I wasn’t hooked up to the Internet yet.
I’ve always been amazed at how both sides have dug in.
Whether its a yes or a no - you will see a bunch of people become very angry.
I’m rooting for “truth”
I trust that after all the interviews and looking at all the pros and cons ... Our Church will make a good decision.

[Tax-chick]

I've known people who have had profound experiences of grace at Medjugorie. Of course, people can have profound experiences of grace at home, too: it doesn't prove anything except that God pours out grace on those who sincerely seek Him.

I trust that after all the interviews and looking at all the pros and cons ... Our Church will make a good decision.

I agree.

[Dr. Sivana]

A close relative of mine got hooked into the phony apparitions at Bayside (Brooklyn, NY). Even though that was a VERY obvious phony, she took the good out of it and is a better person and Catholic this day. God can work good out of evil for those who accept His Grace.

[Dr. Sivana]

Of the six seers who reported apparitions in June 1981

The writer should have written "six purported seers".

[Scotswife]

Indeed He can!

[steve86]

My wife just said if the Blessed Mother is that banal we have serious problems.

Best thought of the thread. No problems, though, she isn't.

[steve86]

There is apparently no proof of any tricks, hoaxes or abuse of popular credulity.

The devil is too clever to be found out by a bunch of stupid humans that easily.

[steve86]

I trust that after all the interviews and looking at all the pros and cons ... Our Church will make a good decision.

I absolutely DO NOT AGREE, unless it is accidental, as good decisions have been the exception not the rule since the early 60s.

[karnage]

My understanding of the process is that apparitions approved by the Church - like Lourdes and Fatima - have gone through an in-depth investigative procedure with specific criteria.

While many positive stories of conversion have come from Medjugorje, that alone is not nearly enough for approval.

[piusv]

I read that this is one of the things that "Mary" supposedly said in Medgujorie:

"... for God all the religions are the same: In God, there are no divisions or religions. You in the world have created divisions”

[piusv]

And LOL @ my spelling of Medxxxdgfgnflh.

I can’t seem to get that one right.

[steve86]

I do wonder, without remembering the details, if there could have been an authentic apparition at the very outset (sans the strange and banal supposed messages), but everything subsequent is something more akin to rotted produce.

[PatriotGirl827]

The best blog out there on Medjugorje, in my opinion.

[Scotswife]

That’s your perogative

[BlatherNaut]

Interesting article from a scientific perspective.

...A 90 decibel sound—the “equivalent to the noise of a combustion engine at high speed”—was fed into the right ear of Ivan Dragicevic, one of the visionaries, during ecstasy without a single reaction of surprise from the visionary. “At the end of the ecstasy Ivan confirmed that he heard nothing.” This was a fascinating contrast to his pre-ecstasy reaction, wherein the injection of a 70 decibel sound visibly startled the young visionary. In addition to concluding that there is a clear disconnection of auditory pathways during the ecstasy, making the visionaries as impervious to exterior noise as they are to strong blasts of light, in “the same way [it was concluded] the visionaries do not feel pinching, prodding or other interventions” thus being impervious to pain as well. Dr. Rouquerol’s results additionally showed that the “auditory potential test, which studies the nervous influx from the periphery (the cochlea, part of the inner ear) to the core of the cerebral artery, indicates that the various pathways to the brain are normal. The regular and rounded shape of the graph eliminates auditory hallucination of an epileptic type.” Thus another alternative explanation for the apparitions was eliminated....

http://ministryvalues.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=310&Itemid=338

[fatima]

She is good God bless her.She reminds me of Joe Friday.”Just the facts Mam.”

[mlizzy]

Dr. E. Micahel Jones' work on the matter for (defunct) Fidelity Magazine and later in two books showed plenty of problems, including self-contradiction and lies by the purported "seers". Or in the words of Vicka: "What I said did not exactly correspond to the truth."

I read all I could that Jones wrote on Medj. so many years ago, and it all seemed on target to me. We had moms of young kids in our hood that would drop everything, dish out thousands, dump their kids on their husbands, and take off, year after year, after year, after year, and maybe still do. Isn't it a waste of time (and money and fidelity to the family) when the Eucharistic Jesus is only minutes away? http://www.therealpresence.org/chap_fr.htm