Posted on 01/18/2014 12:49:19 PM PST by annalex
I remember Bernie Ward from the radio in the 90’s. Off the cliff leftie.
So that is where he ended up?
Chuckle.
We believe that it is against nature, that gay marriage is part of their perversion and that most of them are screwed up in another way.
I don't know a thing about Russian Orthodox, except they survived in spite of the Communists, so why wouldn't Gays use these same clandestine tactics against the Orthodox Church?
I need more background on all of Russia and Eastern Europe, what the heck is going on?
Generally, yes, — treating homosexuality as a curable mental illness is not hating the homosexuals, not more than recognizing illness in people who think they are Napoleon means hating schizophrenics.
The alleged situation in the seminaries, however, does evoke a strong and judgmental emotion. These are very young men, opting to pursue religious life in a society largely not recognizing the nobility of their vocation. The gay clergy grooms them with great skill, combining what seems to them a genuine friendship and genuine spirituality with — at first — rather innocent moments of intimacy, like shared sauna baths. Kuraev describes a sophisticated system of gradual corruption starting from there, that combines sexual gratification with friendship, mentorship, and the sense of belonging. Some grow up in the system, and become molesters of the youth themselves. Others leave the seminary and try to rebuild their lives, — not an easy thing to do with sexuality already messed up and with education irrelevant to the labor marketplace. Yet others refuse the advances and fall out from the privilege of large city cleric life. The gay system will put them in a small parish far from civilization where they would live a life of numbing poverty from then on. Naturally, a priestly vocation IS a sacrifice but in this case, it is a cruel system built on perversion that preys on people.
I refuse to call them NGO’s if they receive funding from a government.
You are starting from a wrong parallel if you thing the Bernie Ward is a relevant figure here. Kuraev is certainly not gay. Nor is he attacking the Church because of some personal angle. He authored dozens of books, has a lecture circuit, travels where he wants, keeps his face on TV, has a professorship in Moscow University — that won’t be taken from him. He may end up defrocked, but that would only elevate his visibility.
I can’t judge his inner spirituality, but there is nothing to suggest any defect of Orthodox Christian faith in him. He also plans to remain faithful to Patriarch Kirill, even though I suspect that trust is being shaken now quite a bit. He is not going to convert to Catholicism, nor Protestantism, nor to some splinter Orthodox group.
The difference with the US is, pun acknowledged, in the climate. In modern Russia the Church is generally seen as a part of national revival, and the Church under Kirill is very close to the Putin’s government. The concept of separation of Church and state is not as popular as it is here. Criticism of the Church is often muted in the media. The widespread atheism of the population nevertheless looks upon the Church benignly, as an institution that somehow survived the Soviet Period and is a national asset in some sense or another.
The seminarians are not children, so there is usually no criminal aspect. Internal checks and balances in the seminaries do not exist: a seminarian who gets unwanted sexual attention cannot lodge a complaint because the same lobby characters will be reviewing and acting upon the complaint.
So in that environment the gay lobby did not have to fear anyone outside of the Church; it had to be a voice from inside, and a voice without self-serving objectives. It had to be, in short, a rarity: a cleric with good reputation and a strong base in the secular world.
The idea that the Russian Orthodox survived “despite communism” is a myth. In fact, communism propped them up, and gave them KGB priests, many of them (if not all) are still active within the RO.
Furthermore, religion in Russia is not like how it is here. People identify as Russian Orthodox even if they are atheists over there. It is a nationalistic thing, and a very anti-semetic, racist, and dangerous kind. It is not the patriotism of the United States. There is nothing noble with these people. Only hypocrisy, vanity and lies.
Those Freepers who take these goons too seriously in the things they boast about will be in for a rude awakening the next time Russia invades a country like Georgia.
You post helps a lot, I have a few Russian friends, all truly Orthodox, but young, and they all are sure Americans understand little if anything about Russians. It's like pulling teeth to get 'em to explain anything.
Everything you say matches up, except the many atheists, they say fewer.
Thanks.
Both statements are true and complementary. It is true that properly organized Orthodox Church free from government overseeing only survived outside of Russia. However, the Sergian (collaborationist) Russian Church of Moscow Patriarchy was both a tool and an adversary of the Soviet power. Stalin indeed set it up as a docile church to his liking, but he never allowed it to flourish, attract followers, teach the doctrine, or -- of course -- have independent system of electing bishops. Khruschev swore to crush it completely, and closed even some parishes that Stalin allowed to open. There was a sever shortage of both priests and places of worship. Most people outside of big cities would not be able to go to a Sunday service simply because of the distance to the nearest church.
The Orthodox Church Moscow Patriarchy is not the only Orthodox Church in Russia, even though it is, arguably, the only canonical one. There are several independent Orthodox bishops that operate small dioceses that either were planted by ROCOR or claim provenance from the Russian Catacomb Church, -- clandestine communities of Orthodox believers who kept the faith and the priest secretly. Besides, of course, there are various Old Believer groups, often with enviable vibrancy of faith.
Surely, the peculiar fact that a vast majority of Russian are both self-proclaimed Orthodox and are not sure if God exists, nor ever set foot in the church is not a defect of the Church itself; it is a 70 years of artificial selection that produced that theological illiteracy.
See my previous post also.
This is another difference in climate. Nobody really knows how many atheists there are in Russia, because the Church is often seen as a cultural and national institution rather than a place of worship. I suspect there are many who consider themselves Orthodox Christian because they baptize their children and like church music, but cannot name any of the Ten Commandments and doubt Christ really lived and went to heaven.
I hope your analysis of truth is more rigorous than Annalex’s.
To quote Reagan: “They know a lot of things that aren’t so.
bkmk
What analysis did I commit that was not sufficiently “rigorous”?
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