Posted on 01/12/2014 7:49:32 PM PST by restornu
Come to think of it the Tanners light house did this kind of chicanery all the time.
the LDS or Mormon scriptures written by Joey Smith and others are dark and lead to death and are different than the Bible which is Light and leads to Life Everlasting and I know that it is so...
The LORD Jesus Christ says to every lost Mormon, “I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man or woman comes to the Father except by Me.” John 14:6
I agree with you I have no trouble with the word Trinity where it differs is in terminology.
Because they are 3 distinct personages
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/pings?more=357415249
Again I remind you of the Godhead
1- Eternal Father
2- Only begotten Son has an Eternal Body of Flesh and Bone this mean for ever and ever.
3- the Holy Ghost which is a disembodied soul
So I asked who is that in the Trinity that was taught by the Tradition of men 3 in one substance?
Many believe that God is spirit therefore Jesus is Spirit to many, yet Jesus has an Eternal Body the 3 members of the Godhead are very distinct.
This should explain it:
A short history of Joseph Smith:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=06jF1EG8o-Q&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D06jF1EG8o-Q
I would make one minor correction to what you said. The Holy Ghost is a spirit, not a soul. You and I have souls, but it is a spirit with the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Next, the verses state that Jesus not only is the flesh, blood, bone, of God, but He is the word, and He, as the word, existed from the beginning.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The Bible, given to me for edification, states that God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, are one.
I don’t have an overwhelming desire to contradict this. Faith calls me to accept His word.
From what you have posted you KNOW the LDS follow Joseph Smith who is a false prophet and none of the Mormon doctrines are about God the Father and His Only Begotten not made Son, the LORD Jesus Christ.
The book of Mormon is part figment of Joey Smith’s imagination, part plagiarism, and thoroughly according to Mark Twain ‘chloroform in print’
“All men have heard of the Mormon Bible, but few except the “elect” have seen it, or, at least, taken the trouble to read it. I brought away a copy from Salt Lake. The book is a curiosity to me, it is such a pretentious affair, and yet so “slow,” so sleepy; such an insipid mess of inspiration. It is chloroform in print. If Joseph Smith composed this book, the act was a miracle — keeping awake while he did it was, at any rate.” (Twain, Mark, Roughing it, 1872)
The so called “word of wisdom” includes such unBiblical items as not eating meat because Joey Smith believed that like man, animals had souls..
In the 12th volume of the so called “journal of discourses” are words from Brigham Young which supports the notion that the fore mentioned “word of wisdom” is a commandment from the Mormon gods..In 1898 Lorenzo Snow said he believed it was and that it should be carrying out to the letter..He said in doing so members should be taught to refrain from eating meat except in dire necessity because Smith had taught animals have spirits
the so called “journal of discourses” are often denounced by the Mormons themselves in these threads as in error..(kinda like they speak of the Christian Bible but different. The Bible is Truth))
Then theres the so called “doctrines and covenants” of which #132 is still prevalent as the “first principle” and the “everlasting covenant” namely the tenet on polygamy written by Joey Smith as a cover to cheat on his wife Emma Hale..but never amended or deleted..and a few “prophecies” to Smith’s cronies that never did come about..
You think I'm preaching some kind of unorthodox teaching "method"? How about you just answer the question instead of trying to divert? You claimed, and implied, that Cynical Bear and I must not have "received a witness" through the Holy Scriptures or experienced their "sweet taste" because we don't agree with your religion and how it teaches the truths of God. There is no real mystery here about when this "type of believing" began, because they are just plain-old-always-have-been believed doctrines that Jesus gave us through His word.
I have received the witness of the Holy Spirit and He affirms all that Scripture teaches. You want to imply that we can't possibly be telling the truth since we don't believe what your religion teaches. We should have a more firm foundation for our faith than just "feelings". Our faith in built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. We dare not trust the sweetest frame but wholly lean on Jesus' name. On Christ the solid rock we stand, all other ground is sinking sand. Don't trust the sand!
I would make one minor correction to what you said. The Holy Ghost is a spirit, not a soul. You and I have souls, but it is a spirit with the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
***
Well I did check it in the dictionary before I posted it
noun 1. the soul of a dead person, a disembodied spirit imagined, usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living persons.
2. a mere shadow or semblance; a trace: He’s a ghost of his former self.
3. a remote possibility: He hasn’t a ghost of a chance.
4. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) a spiritual being.
5. the principle of life; soul; spirit.
_______
John 14
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Luke 24 Jesus said in verse 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Why do you want to change not only what the scriptures say but what Jesus said?
Jesus has an Eternal Bony of Flesh and Bone
36 ¶And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
When Jesus ascended to Heaven he left with His Eternal Body intact and when he comes again it will be with the Eternal Body.
I don’t know if you are spoiling for a fight, but nothing you posted casts any doubt. You asked where did the bible talk about the trinity. I posted references. If anything, you are trying to put a stumbling block before your brethren. Maybe you should go pray on that.
Let me simplify it for you. Scripture repeatedly states that there is ONLY ONE God. That He is the "self-existent One (the I AM). That there are NO OTHER gods besides Him. That HE alone is the Savior. He created all that exists and before He did that nothing existed that exists. Therefore, when Scripture says that the Father is God, Jesus is Almighty God incarnate, when Scripture says that the Holy Spirit is God, we either toss out the Bible or we believe that the Father AND Jesus AND the Holy Spirit are all that ONE GOD. It's called a mystery. Some things we just have to accept because God said it, we believe it by faith. Some things we need to submit in humility before God and say to Him, "Yes, Lord, you said it, I believe it.".
Do you have source ?
That's your response to post 247?? A personal attack? 247 was a sincere honest true response to your beliefs. You should read it again and absorb it instead of brushing it off.
BTW my religion did not add words...
The LDS does and did many times, and many words.
We could start with the BOM which is the elephant in the room. If you don't think it is more important and correct than the Bible you will not be in the good graces of the overlords of the LDS. And it is all "added" false revelations from a false prophet.
If you would like to discuss this fine, if you just want to snark that's ok with me.
So you’re a bigot as well? The Holy Spirit said John the Baptist was “a man of God”. You only have Joey Smith’s word that he was. Joseph Smith was a charlatan, a deceitful adulterer, a murdering criminal, a liar, and a man from Satan.
You have been shown over and over how the LDS teachings are contrary to what scripture teaches. What the LDS teaches is a lie straight from Satan.
Well then I’ll answer the whole thing. What the LDS believes to be the “heavenly father” is a construct from Satan to deceive what is real and their concept and teaching of who Jesus is lies about what scripture says. Those who follow the teaching of the LDS have been deceived by Satan and his buddy Joseph Smith.
The irony of you lecturing me about "digital ethics" is like a wolf lecturing a lamb about being too vicious...:-)
None of those are "clear" trinitarian passages. The fact that passages mention the father, the son and the holy spirit only proves that there is a father, son and holy spirit.
That doesn't make the bible fit into a creed that was created, defined and developed over 300 years after the death of Christ.
No matter how you slice it and dice it NOBODY in the bible, including Jesus Christ, beleived the holy spirit was a separate "person" that stood along the father and the son. The actual descriptions of the Godhead in heaven CLEARLY show that. Scripture after scripture shows this picture.
Here's some more:
Rom 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul sends greeting from God. He does not include a person called the "holy spirit". There is no way Paul was a trinitarian.
1Co 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Again, it's inconceivable that if Paul were a "trinitarian" that he wouldn't include the holy spirit as part of his standard greeting.
2Co 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Well of course Paul wasn't a trinitarian...it was IMPOSSIBLE since the creed wasn't developed until long after he was dead.
Gal 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ,
Do you understand what this means? Paul was not and could NOT have been a trinitarian.
Paul, personally taught, by Christ, didn't believe what you believe. Who is right? You or Paul?
Eph 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
To be honest you MUST know and recognize that Paul was not a trinitarian. Your beliefs ARE in conflict with Paul's. Who is right?
Php 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Book after book Paul never elevates the holy spirit to a place in the Godhead. He didn't believe it was a different, separate person.
Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Poor, ignorant blasphemous Paul... :-)
1Th 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Poor spiritually dead Paul. Do you think God ever forgave him for not understanding the trinity?
2Th 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
I mean clearly Paul doesn't "get it". He's so disrespectful the 3rd person in the trinity. He never puts this "holy spirit" at the same level as the father and the son.
1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the commandment of God our Savior and the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope,
1Ti 1:2 To Timothy, a true son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amazingly enough that heretic Paul also teaches Timothy the same thing! Heretic!
2Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2Ti 1:2 To Timothy, a beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Paul, the heretic, still keeps describing the Godhead and STILL purposely and deliberately omits the 3rd person in the Godhead. What is wrong with this idiot?
Tit 1:4 To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.
Blasphemy!
Phm 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
It's abundantly clear that Paul did NOT elevate a person called the "holy spirit" to the level of the father and the son. In writing after writing he acknowledges the father and the son as being divine PEOPLE in which he sends greetings from. But he does NOT recognize the holy spirit as being as different person and so does NOT send greetings. And of course not....this belief did NOT formally exist until over 300 years after this.
You MUST believe that God did not "reveal" this to Paul or to anyone else in the bible. You MUST believe that they were not as spiritually "blessed" as the ones who made up this belief. You must belief your understanding is greater than Peter, Paul, Matthew, Luke and John.
Good luck with that.
I am going to rise about and not take anything any of you said personally, for many are really unable to read the words I wrote them mainly from the Bible, can’t even drink from the Bible which so many here claim to love so much.
I have been called so many names it hard to keep tack, my words have been twisted.
I pray you learn someday that the Qualities of Jesus and those who truly follow him would never put on such a display.
There is no darkness in Jesus nor could he behave as some have behaved here.
The first time Jesus came many thought he was going to be their warrior and were so disappointed that that was not his mission.
Sadly for some are unable to receive the Kind loving Jesus.
John 14
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Jesus said he hath nothing in me
The prince of this world has no light in him or as stated in the things that the children of Jesus allow him to edify them Gal. 5:22; or even 1 Cor. 13
I’m trying to be like Jesus;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L2f07XlidALyrics:
1. I’m trying to be like Jesus;
I’m following in his ways.
I’m trying to love as he did, in all that I do and say.
At times I am tempted to make a wrong choice,
But I try to listen as the still small voice whispers,
Chorus
“Love one another as Jesus loves you.
Try to show kindness in all that you do.
Be gentle and loving in deed and in thought,
For these are the things Jesus taught.”
2. I’m trying to love my neighbor;
I’m learning to serve my friends.
I watch for the day of gladness when Jesus will come again.
I try to remember the lessons he taught.
Then the Holy Spirit enters into my thoughts, saying:
1 John 4:12
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
The question is whether or not the holy spirit is a separate "person" or even a "person" at all.
For example:
Act 8:19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
Act 8:20 But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
1Ti_4:14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.
The apostles considered the holy spirit a "gift" of God. Strange language to use about a "person".
1Th 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit
Can a "person" be quenched? Can we "quench" the father? Can we "quench" the son?
Act 10:45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Does scripture ever talk about "pouring" out the father or the son? Can a person be "poured" out?
2Ti 1:6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
The holy spirit is something we can "stir".
There are many, many more scriptural references that prove that the holy spirit is NOT a "person" in a trinity. And of course...because this belief did not formally exist until over 300 years AFTER the scriptures were written.
For a vast amount of scripture confirming this see: Is the Holy Spirit a Person?
Do you find sarcasm an effective tool for saving souls? If I were an unbeliever and read your posts on this thread, I would be turned off Jesus.
Please don’t include me in your replies. I am not interested in an adversarial discussion of the Trinity. That’s not intended to be hateful and doesn’t apply to other discussions on FR.
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