Do John Hagee or Perry Stone support Messianic Jews and/or Messianic Jewish Rabbis?

See comment 59

I can’t do that “JewishRighter”

I try to stay away from all those clergymen of different faiths because they creep me out with all those costumes and funny hats they put on ... smiles ... yea, I know, I’m unorthodox to say the least, but at least I’m trying to understand to the best of my abilities and the resources I have available ... smiles

The Book of Isaiah is Totally Awesome ... smiles
Check this out:

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Isaiah 53:1
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Isaiah 53:2
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Isaiah 53:3
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isaiah 53:4
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isaiah 53:7
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Isaiah 53:8
He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Isaiah 53:9
And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Isaiah 53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isaiah 53:11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isaiah 53:12
Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

wow ... simply amazing ... thank you Dear LORD for Your WORD

*** You really, really have no clue what Judaism is. ***
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You are absolutely right, I don’t.
That’s why I ask questions to everyone I come across so I can learn new things.

Maybe I should be a little more selective though in who I ask.
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*** So you tell me:
how does it feel to blatantly break G-d’s commandment — and then flaunt it? If you actually read His Torah instead of using it as some spiritual Google, then you’d know the answer to your questions. ***
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And what commandment might that be “grasshopper”?

Posting my Heavenly Fathers WORD and asking questions is considered flaunting now too?

What’s a spiritual google?

Is the “Torah” the “Pentateuch”?
Are the first 5 Books Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy?

What do I have in front of me, do you know?
Is it one book, two, three?

How about the Book of Psalms and the Book of Isaiah, can I use that in my studies, and post its WORDS or is that off limits too when responding to you according to your criteria?

What’s up with this man made beliefs too?
Are you mocking the WORD of my LORD?

I use passages out of the first 5 Books and you attack.

You didn’t answer my questions, you just personally attacked me, and that’s not very kind of you either.

You know what else?
I don’t like that “spirit” that you fly with.

It’s not a humble, nor compassionate “spirit” when conversing with others on the internet, who maybe aren’t as “literate” as you portray yourself to be.

I can’t even bid you anything either, because then I’ll just be a partaker of whatever it is you just “spun”.

I don’t see it as either one. The Lord does things in his own time at his own volition.

And I don’t think changing the label would change anything. I don’t think it was purposely deceptive, and I don’t think it is truly deceptive in fact, but in either case things like this don’t go by labels.

I wasn’t presenting the man I met as any kind of evidence, either. But there was something deep about him, different from the demeanor of the “average” Christian. He certainly didn’t seem deceived, like he was trying very hard to be both things at once. Can’t really explain it but it was very moving.

“Problem is that they don’t keep it to themselves. They use that misleading title as a way to lure Jews to abandon their own faith without understanding that this is what they are doing. “

I’m pretty sure they make it clear that they’re confessing Jesus Christ. Though, it’s only bigotry to suggest that a Jew ceases to be a Jew when he does that.

“If you want to know YHVH, then know and live Torah. Contrary to the non-divine books you ask Jews to justify for you, you really don’t need anything else. It’s all right there.”

You’re absolutely right!

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Oops! What I really meant was ‘You’re absolutely wrong!’ Well, the scripture verses probably made that clear.

“You probably want to take that up with The Management, “

Why don’t you? He destroyed your temple in 70AD, and hasn’t rebuilt it in almost 2,000 years. And it was all predicted in advance.

Meanwhile, the Messianic Jews will keep on trucking away, even despite your prejudice and empty boasts.

“Someone who leaves, like a lost sheep straying from a flock, is always welcome back with open arms.,”

Been there, done that:

“Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (Joh 10:25-28)

“Is your argument that the One True G-d, the LORD contradicts Himself?”

I think the God who established the sabbath, has the authority to abrogate it too, just like Kimchi:

R. David Kimchi in Josh. vi. 11:
““the day on which Jericho was taken was the sabbath day; and that though they slew and burnt on the sabbath day, “he that commanded the observation of the sabbath, commanded the profanation of it”.’’

And I think the God who established the Old Covenant, which you don’t follow anyway, can establish a new one:

Jer 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
Jer 31:32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.

“Prejudice and empty boasts?!”

Yep, you think you can tell Jews that they are no longer Jews.
And then, you think that repeating yourself over and over again, will De-Jew them. Meanwhile, your religion has reached such levels of absurdity, that they embrace stuff like this:

From the Zohar, Chapter 6, Portion Noach “If Adam had not sinned, he would not have begotten any offspring.”

35.
Come and behold: if Adam had brought generations with him from the Garden of Eden, they would have lived for generations. And the light of the moon, WHICH REFERS TO THE LIGHT OF MALCHUT, would have never been darkened. And all would have lived forever; and not even the angels above could have stood before them and borne their light, brilliance and wisdom. As it is written: “In the image of Elohim He created him” (Beresheet 1:27). But because he was the cause of the sin, he had to leave the Garden of Eden and bear children outside. So his generations did not last BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT FIT.

Rabbi Chizkiyah then asked: How could they have begotten offspring there IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN? Had the Evil Inclination not been drawn down on him and he sinned, he would have dwelled alone in the world and would have not begotten any offspring! The same applies to Yisrael; had they not sinned by the golden calf and drawn upon themselves the Evil Inclination AFTER ACCEPTING THE TORAH, they also would have never borne any offspring, and no new generations would have come into the world. The main point is that the power of mating derives mainly from the Evil Inclination. So without the Evil Inclination there can be no offspring.

He said to him: Had Adam not sinned, he would not have borne offspring from the side of the Evil Inclination, but he would have borne them from the side of the Holy Spirit. But because he produced offspring only from the side of the Evil Inclination, all the offspring of mankind are born from the side of the Evil Inclination. They have no permanent existence therefore, because the Other Side has been mixed with them.

But if Adam had not sinned and had not been driven out of the Garden of Eden, he would have begotten offspring from the side of the Spirit of the holy of holies. And they would have been as the supreme angels, and lived generations upon generations as angels do above. THIS MEANS THAT THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF MATING: ONE IS THE SPIRITUAL MATING OF THE ANGELS; THE SECOND IS THE MATING OF YESOD FOR THE SOULS. THAT NEED FOR THE EVIL INCLINATION RELATES ONLY TO THE MATING OF YESOD AND NOT TO THE SPIRITUAL MATING THAT COMES FROM THE SIDE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. But because he sinned and begot children outside the Garden of Eden and he did not merit to beget them in the Garden of Eden, therefore they did not survive even only to take root in this world until Noah came and went into the ark. And from the ark all descending generations of mankind emerged and spread to all four corners of the earth.

I’d rather stick with the plain words of the scripture. Here’s the Gospel summarized:

Isa 53:1-12 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? (2) For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. (3) He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. (4) Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. (5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. (6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (7) He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. (8) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. (9) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. (10) Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. (11) He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. (12) Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

“Is that why you feel the ridiculous need to constantly justify your beliefs to Jews?”

I couldn’t care less what you believe. Remember, it was YOU picking the fight on this thread, not me. Why do YOU feel the ridiculous need to justify your beliefs to others?

“BEWARE LEST YOUR HEART BE DECEIVED
AND YOU TURN AND SERVE OTHER GODS AND WORSHIP THEM
AND ANGER OF THE LORD WILL BLAZE AGAINST YOU,
AND HE WILL CLOSE THE HEAVENS AND THERE WILL BE NO RAIN,
AND THE EARTH WILL NOT GIVE YOU ITS FULLNESS,
AND YOU WILL PERISH QUICKLY FROM THE GOOD LAND THAT THE LORD GAVE YOU”

Yep! That’s why the Temple was destroyed. Well, THAT, and to “finish the transgression”, “put an end to sin,” “atone for iniquity,” “bring in everlasting righteousness,” “seal both vision and prophet,” and to “anoint a most holy place.”:

“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.”
(Dan 9:24-26)

“He doesn’t contradict Himself”

Would that you stopped contradicting Him and making such lame arguments too!

“Now you presume to suggest overwriting His Torah with the words of man to a Jew!”

Meanwhile:

“Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers... which my covenant they BRAKE, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:” (Jer 31:32)

Are you SURE just being Jewish is going to help you out? And why are you MORE Jewish than the Jews who disagree with you?