oy vey .. lol
Posted on 01/07/2014 1:55:57 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
Just wondering if anyone had any definitive facts on this, as I can't seem to find any.
If Perry Stone has Rabbis that he works with on spiritual matters, are they all Messianic Jewish Rabbis, some, or none?
I don’t know what religion Muhammad was before he founded his own religion of Islam. If he was a Christian, though, this would not mean to me that a Christians for Islam movement deserves to have any credibility within the Christian faith.
Christianity and Judaism have been separate religions under the understanding of both religions for nearly 1800 years. It is only in the last 40 years that a group of Christians who had converted some Jews (e.g., Moishe Rosen) to their faith set out to adopt a name that they thought would make more Jews comfortable in abandoning their own religion and joining theirs.
It is nothing more than a frontal attack on Judaism and an effort to convert them to the Christian faith.
Okay, so if they're still around in 2060 or 2160 or 20060 one of you is right, if you're not the other one is.
Obviously, if Jews don't consider Messianic Jews Jewish, then they aren't considered Jewish by Jews and protestations to the contrary aren't going to change that.
But if Messianic Jews continue to exist without being assimilated or absorbed by the Christian or back into the Jewish community, some rethinking might be in order.
"Fraud" is pretty harsh in reference to anyone's religious views, though.
To be clear, I am not calling their religious beliefs fraudulent. Their nomenclature is.
I say this because they are Christians but they don’t call themselves Christians; instead, they call themselves Jews.
They call themselves messianic Jews in order to trick Jews into thinking that they can be Christians and Jews simultaneously, and in the Jewish faith this is impossible (in the Christian faith it has been impossible at least since the Council of Nicea in 325).
Hagee is, or was, of the idea of the “Replacement theory”, teaching that America is the new Israel.
He might just go and teach OT ideas, but he is a strictly NT only preacher.
LOL, there are those who disagree with that council even today, but history has shown that the punishment for such disagreement is total annihilation, so you're largely correct, because those that disagree are largely dead.
“Problem is that they don’t keep it to themselves.”
Nor should they.
“They use that misleading title”
They believe Jesus is Messiah. TO them it is not misleading in any way. It is their truthful belief. They are correct.
“...as a way to lure Jews to abandon their own faith without understanding that this is what they are doing.”
Again, they believe Messiah is the fulfillment of Jewish faith. They are correct. They identify Jesus as Messiah. They are correct.
“Nothing wrong with Christians, but when they set out to deceive they are as evil and duplicitous as any other fraudster.”
They do not “set out to deceive”. That is your opinion, apparently. If you have facts to demonstrate objectively that they intended to deceive, post them and let’s take a look together.
I support their right to practice their religious beliefs, just as I support your right to reject those same beliefs, if you wish.
:-) know the force... it is strong on the forum.
oy vey .. lol
Wholeheartedly agree. Jews for Jesus is an irreconcilable contradiction.
Including the apostles, among others.
Piranha, I don’t think you have ever met one in person. I did at, believe it or not, the NYC Conservative Meetup. If they are like the man I met, they on fire like you cannot believe, but quietly, humbly, and reverently, and a startling combination of both traditions.
“Jews for Jesus is an irreconcilable contradiction.”
I’ve met plenty of atheist, agnostic and Buddhist Jews. THAT to me seems a contradiction.
Jews who recognize Jesus as Messiah? Not so much a contradiction as a fulfillment from their point of view. I realize that the majority of Jews who believe in God and practice do not agree. If they did, JFJ wouldn’t have a mission.
I’m not going to argue theology with you, but, for anyone who knows what Judaism is, it is utterly irreconcilable. No amount of word games will ever change that. For Jews who are judaicly ignorant, believing in Jesus doesn’t mean fulfilling Judaism. It means abandoning Judaism for Christianity, no matter what they think or feel or want it to be.
Perfectly correct.
Correct again. “Messianic Judaism “ is just the repackaged missionary scam that used to be called Jews for Jesus
Whoopdee frickin’ Doo. Your fascination with someone high on a J4J cocktail means nothing.
I support your right to believe as you wish, even though I disagree. And I wish you well.
Hi there “JewishRighter”
I’m a new student at studying Scriptures, so I still have a lot to learn in all these matters, but I’m curious as to what this means when you stated this:
*******
“...For Jews who are judaicly ignorant, believing in Jesus doesn’t mean fulfilling Judaism. It means abandoning Judaism for Christianity...”
*******
I always thought the tribes of Judah and Israel were anticipating the arrival of “ha Mashiach/the Messiah”.
If that is true then, wouldn’t Yahushua ha Mashiach/Yeshua/Jesus the Christ be that fulfillment? ... and also ... wouldn’t that “not be” considered an abandonment at all of Judaism, but an actual fulfillment of, if they did accept Him as the true Messiah?
>> “Christianity and Judaism have been separate religions under the understanding of both religions for nearly 1800 years” <<
.
Total nonsense!
Yeshua’s Way was Judaism brought to its fulfillment with the perfect sacrifice for all time; the sinless man, Yehova with us, paid the price for all who will believe.
Those who call themselves “Christians” but deny Sinai are just fooling themselves; their ‘worship’ is empty and feckless.
Pleas do not confuse the Catholic church and its spawn with the Way of Yeshua. They are as far apart as night and day.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.