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To: HarleyD; CynicalBear; smvoice; RnMomof7; metmom; boatbums; caww; Iscool

>> “For all our friends trying to live by the law...” <<

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A mostly nonexistent group imagined up by the faith rejecting “Gracists.”

When Paul spoke of “the law” he was not discussing Torah, but the false oral torah of the Pharisees. Yeshua’s second most important task here on Earth was rebuking the Pharisees and their oral traditions.

Living with Torah written on your heart is what Yeshua came to promote. Living with a love of pleasing him by following his words is not “Salvation by works.” It is enduring in faith that we will be saved on that day when he comes in the cloud with his angels.

Paul circumcised Timothy to make his life less complicated.


603 posted on 01/09/2014 6:47:00 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

“..... Living with Torah written on your heart is what Yeshua came to promote.....”

Ah...no....Jesus came to sacrifice His life in our place for what we otherwise deserve. That was His mission and has nothing to do with what we can or not do to earn His favor....we can do nothing to earn Gods favor to earn Salvation...

So It’s “Christ in me the hope of Glory”...and that by His Spirit given us...not learning or having “the Torah written on the heart” as you’ve stated.

Jesus either did it all for us or HE did nothing at all...there is no middle ground of any merit on our part to earn brownie points...for all our righteousness is like filthy rags apart from His Spirits working.


608 posted on 01/09/2014 10:04:13 PM PST by caww
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To: editor-surveyor; HarleyD; CynicalBear; smvoice; RnMomof7; metmom; caww; Iscool
A mostly nonexistent group imagined up by the faith rejecting “Gracists.”

Gracists??? Talk about a nonexistent group!

611 posted on 01/09/2014 11:08:04 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: editor-surveyor; CynicalBear; smvoice; RnMomof7; metmom; boatbums; caww; Iscool
When Paul spoke of “the law” he was not discussing Torah, but the false oral torah of the Pharisees.

Upon what do you base that conclusion? Paul talks extensively about the written law-not an oral law throughout his writings; the most detailed account being Romans. To the Galatians he writes:

The law (Torah) was given to us to show us the standard by which God expects us to live. Even though the written law is good, we really don't want to live by it-in spite of what we might do or say. Otherwise, if we did we would simply keep the commands. But we still tell lies. We still covet things other people have. And don't fool yourself. We know very well when we are sinning. This same written Torah meant to show us God's standards condemns us by helping us to understand that we don't wish to meet God's standard. Even after God gives us a new heart to cause us to walk in His ways. As Paul writes to the Galatians, we are foolish if we think we really are as obedient to His commandments as we think we are. We are not.

Because God is love and knowing we can't meet His perfection, He gave us His Son. The Father understands our rebellious nature. Christ is our perfection and when He sees us, He sees the perfection of our Lord-not our rebellious attitudes. As Paul writes, if God has given us His grace so that we don't have to meet the standard of the Torah, why on earth would we want to try? Especially if we understand that our hearts desire is really to be rebellious towards God. Instead of trying to live a perfect life, God wants us to see our imperfections and repent-coming to Him for our failures and weaknesses. He wants us to turn to Him and be healed.

Failure to understand this concept, as Paul told the Galatians, is failure to understand the gospel.

618 posted on 01/10/2014 1:24:46 AM PST by HarleyD (...one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.)
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