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To: editor-surveyor; CynicalBear; smvoice; RnMomof7; metmom; boatbums; caww; Iscool
When Paul spoke of “the law” he was not discussing Torah, but the false oral torah of the Pharisees.

Upon what do you base that conclusion? Paul talks extensively about the written law-not an oral law throughout his writings; the most detailed account being Romans. To the Galatians he writes:

The law (Torah) was given to us to show us the standard by which God expects us to live. Even though the written law is good, we really don't want to live by it-in spite of what we might do or say. Otherwise, if we did we would simply keep the commands. But we still tell lies. We still covet things other people have. And don't fool yourself. We know very well when we are sinning. This same written Torah meant to show us God's standards condemns us by helping us to understand that we don't wish to meet God's standard. Even after God gives us a new heart to cause us to walk in His ways. As Paul writes to the Galatians, we are foolish if we think we really are as obedient to His commandments as we think we are. We are not.

Because God is love and knowing we can't meet His perfection, He gave us His Son. The Father understands our rebellious nature. Christ is our perfection and when He sees us, He sees the perfection of our Lord-not our rebellious attitudes. As Paul writes, if God has given us His grace so that we don't have to meet the standard of the Torah, why on earth would we want to try? Especially if we understand that our hearts desire is really to be rebellious towards God. Instead of trying to live a perfect life, God wants us to see our imperfections and repent-coming to Him for our failures and weaknesses. He wants us to turn to Him and be healed.

Failure to understand this concept, as Paul told the Galatians, is failure to understand the gospel.

618 posted on 01/10/2014 1:24:46 AM PST by HarleyD (...one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.)
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To: HarleyD
"...we are foolish if we think we really are as obedient to His commandments as we think we are. We are not."

What is thy servant, that thou shouldest look upon such a dead dog as I am?
Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord.
I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. (2 Samuel 9:8,Luke 5:8,Hebrews 13:5)

619 posted on 01/10/2014 3:12:20 AM PST by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: HarleyD; CynicalBear; smvoice; RnMomof7; metmom; boatbums; caww; Iscool

>> “ Even though the written law is good, we really don’t want to live by it-in spite of what we might do or say. Otherwise, if we did we would simply keep the commands” <<

.
That idea cannot be supported by Yeshua’s words recorded in the gospels. He constantly demanded obedience to his torah, and when he healed, he always said “go and sin no more.”

Your idea makes him a buffoon at best if what he constantly asked of us is not possible.

You constantly fail to discern the difference between relying on the Torah foe justification, and following Torah out of love for our savior. We know that we are justified only by faith, we follow Torah to please him.


622 posted on 01/10/2014 9:28:51 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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