Posted on 12/16/2013 8:08:08 AM PST by GonzoII
I just went to the two sites you sourced. I find in interesting that they both disagree with your view. I would think that you find that troubling.
I fail to see the fear of simply ceasing to exist in any form. Why would I fear the one who can cause my soul to simply cease to exist? At that point it’s over. I’ll just have my fun here and then I simply cease to exist. Where is the fear in that?
I just went to the two sites you sourced. I find in interesting that they both disagree with your view. I would think that you find that troubling.
Why would I fear the one who can cause my soul to simply cease to exist?
All of human actions are driven from one of two perspectives: Fear of bad outcomes and desire for a good outcome. And fear is the lack of faith. Fear should never be a driver of your actions.
The two sites you gave in the post I was responding to. Post 207.
>> It may be that I have not stated my position accurately.<<
I doubt there is any misunderstanding of your position. I think it’s obvious to most everyone that you have completely ignored the intent of the Greek words used and have twisted the meaning and intent of those words to fit a carnal viewpoint. I can find no Greek scholars that agree with your view.
Absolutely not. It’s the very reason most give for statements like, “what’s the problem?” I have never once encountered anyone who fears dying if they believe it’s nothing more than ceasing to exist in any form. It’s the reasoning behind many who commit suicide. They just want done with the suffering here. For several years is was on an ambulance crew and had to respond to suicides. Those who left notes indicated they just wanted to end the suffering. They believed your view of death. It’s cruel thing to give people that false understanding.
>>And, again, “fear” is no reason to come to Christ.<<
One would wonder then why scripture is replete with the opposite view.
Hebrews 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
>>All of human actions are driven from one of two perspectives:<<
And scripture clearly teaches that we should fear that judgment after death if we don’t rely on Christ to save us from that awful fate. Faith in Christ removes that fear and replaces it with a wonderful promise.
Actually, those two links contain many viewpoints. I agree with most of the perspectives they bring. I also agree with the translations of the words.
But, like most biblical scholars far more versed than myself, I understand the context of the whole book of Revelation. That is where I think you and I seem to go separate ways. Some poster here used a phrase from Revelation and claimed it made a point “crystal clear”. That is difficult to say about anything in Revelation except the most core issues (e.g. who Jesus is).
BTW, I’m not a biblical scholar, but I don’t need to be. Neither were the apostles. One can know Jesus without ever laying eyes on a bible. When my Jesus is a God of love and Justice and mercy, I look at all the times Jesus (as well as any writer in the NT or OT) mentions the fate of the lost, it is clearly discussing, as it’s primary point, the fact that they are not to receive eternal life. And usually it goes so far as to say they are eliminated. In the New testament it even compares their fate to the fates of civilizations and cities that were utterly wiped out in the OT.
My Jesus does not torture people for all eternity because they failed to follow him. However, they suffer the same fate of all who do not follow him. That includes those that reached the age of accountability and died five days later without ever hearing about Jesus. They are extinguished. They are not in the presence of the Lord and their condition will never change. There will be no appeal, no parole, no pardon. They are gone, as if they never existed.
Should you fear that? That is your choice. But nobody should come to the Lord out of fear. They come to the Lord from a desire to spend eternity with him and an acknowledge that He is their Creator and God. And they desire to be wholy obedient to him.
Well, clearly we disagree about whether people fear death. Sorry, I’ve got an implementation today and gotta get to it.
Revelation 20:10 says they are in the lake of fire. If they had simply been consumed they would no longer be there after that thousand years. The verse then goes on to say that they will be tormented for “the ages of the ages” which the Greek scholars say stretches into infinity. It’s obvious that they are still suffering torment on into infinity rather than having simply been consumed to exist no more.
Depends on what is meant by "alive". We know that even as we live here on earth, "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear." (Isa. 59:2) So, yes, we can be alive and be separated from God.
Then you have to define "separate". Is there any place where we can flee from the presence of God? No. Scripture defines death as separation. The Hebrew word for "separate" is בָּדַל (transliterated as "badal") and can mean set apart, to divide, sever, to withdraw from. Physical death is the separation of our mortal bodies from our immortal souls and spirits. Spiritual death is the separation of our souls and spirits from God. Because God created our souls as eternal, then there can be a time when those souls are "alive" but still separated from God and God calls this place hell. Contrary to stupid wishful thinking satanists, hell will NOT be a place where Satan rules. They think giving their lives to his service will buy them some favoritism in hell - since they are resigned to going there anyway. But we know that hell is where Satan will be the worst punished and that, even there, God is still in control.
Sorry that your simple sentence couldn't be answered simply.
It rains on the just and unjust.
That response is totally unclear to me.
Scripture defines death as separation.
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