You're Probably Not Saved, Yet.

Beyond Today ^ | 2013 | Various

[DouglasKC]

How do you know you're saved?

Imagine you arrive at a most important banquet that's hosted by Christ Himself. After all--you're a Christian. Picture coming to His home and walking right up to the door. Perhaps you're a little surprised that the door is closed and you're shut outside. But not to be deterred, you knock and knock. No response, no reaction. So you call out, "Jesus open the door, Lord it's me." Still, no response, no reaction. At long last, you hear Jesus' voice and He says, "I never knew you!" What a devastating and shocking situation in which to find yourself.

[DouglasKC]

To cut him a bit of slack, one must be actively attempting to “confuse” others. I’ve had those verses thrown at me when I even ask questions about the idea that maybe those thrown into the lake of fire after the Great White Throne Judgement are consumed and anihilated. And all I’m trying to do is weed out any false teaching that may have percolated to the surface in the “mainstream” church. They won’t even discuss it.

In most religions (or really any belief system) there are self appointed gatekeepers. Right now the gatekeepers for mainstream Christianity have bought in (for the most part) that there is no sin and that anyone is saved if they just "believe". That's why mainstream Christianity is corrupted....i.e. homosexual and lesbian behavior is celebrated as are a host of other sins that are clearly and absolutely called sin in scripture.

[cuban leaf]

Love is an action. Love is a decision. It is not a feeling.

IMO, when the bible tells you to “love yourself” it is saying to take the action to ensure your health, fun times, sanity, and distance from prison. And you love others, you take action to make their condition the same.

To me, that is “loving others” as well as “loving your enemies.

[ravenwolf]

I don’t know if the message stuck there, though. It was kind of a free for all.

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Yeah but i bet it was interesting.

[cuban leaf]

I seen it all people who worship the congregation or church that they attend to and follow their leader or pastor at every word as the Gospel, that’s how the great deception is going to happen.

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I’ve been the rabblerouser in every church I attend. If I agree, I agree. If I don’t, and have strong background, I make them prove their case. If I don’t but don’t have much info, I study it and consider their points.

I have yet to attend a church that agrees with me on every single point. But for me the church has a deeper meaning: Christianity is about two things. The first is your relationship with your creator. The second is a subset of the first - your relationship with your fellow man.

And “church” is mainly about the second.

[cuban leaf]

Yeah. My take on PRACTICING homosexuality is the same as my take on heterosexuals shacking up. I consider both to be sins. I believe the bible is clear on that subject.

When they say “I was born that way”, my respons is, “Maybe you were born that way and maybe you weren’t. But we are ALL born with sinful temptations. So? I should not accept you practicing or trying to justify yours any more than you should accept me practicing or trying to justify mine.”

[Cletus.D.Yokel]

Hmmm, let be a bit circumspect with you because you seem to use a lnaguage that convolutes* Scripture. (* = makes it appear to say things it doesn’t).

You ask, “Do they need the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?” I’d toss back to you, in what way os that acheived given that Christ, at His ascension, said that He (all persons of Trinity) wouold be with us untill the end of the age? The Holy Spirit has been poured out on God’s creation. How is it mankinf “needs” such a indwelling when it exists. (Kinda like water...do you need to hydrate to stay alive and if you deny that water “is” what is the physical result?)

Moving on...

:: Kind of like “Why are you still beating your wife?” ::

Seriously, if God asked you that question today...how would you answer it? I mean to say, isn’t that really what God wants of us?: “You have been found justified in your sins for the sake of my crucified Son...on what do presume to come into Heaven?”

Do you answer Him with a litany of good works? A recitation of the times you have “decided His Son is part of your life? The day you remembered you were “baptized...for the last time...and this one “took”?

[cuban leaf]

Yeah but i bet it was interesting.

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It was kinda fun but those women were out of control in ways the men NEVER, EVER got. And to be clear, our two lead vocalists were female.

But I put a LOT of emphasis on the word, “kinda”. That part was really fleeting.

[ravenwolf]

By the way ? didn’t Jesus associate with sinners, publicans, harlets, cussing sailers more than the so called goodie two shoes religious leaders of his day ?

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That is the way it looks to me, and he also did not call the highly educated to be his chosen apostles.

[American Constitutionalist]

Here it is in the Authorized King James version.
Luke chapter 17 verse 1 to 4

"1. Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offenses will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2. It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3. Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him."


Actually ? that sermon that is in that settling starts a few chapters back at chapter 14 in Luke when he talks about how the Pharisees want the best places, the best rooms, the best seats before this verse here in chapter 17.
Yup it's all about context and you would not get the proper context if you rely on just one chapter here or one verse.
Also the story of Lazarus and the rich man is in this settling and sermon and ties into what Jesus is saying here.
What is he saying ?
First of all ? he's talking about how much the Pharisees and religious leaders, the law preachers are all a bunch of phonies and hypocrites and even in these chapters the Pharisees deride Jesus for speaking the truth about them.
To get the point ? the idea ? the meaning of what Jesus is saying there is you have to read where it says in verse 2 " than that he should offend one of these little ones. "
Offending those who are new Christians or new in the faith, or weak in the faith.
What do new Christians think when they see older Christians in the faith acting like the world ? arguing ? backbiting ? gossip ? hating one another ?
They start to question their faith.
Jesus said that offenses will come and there is no way to avoid them, they are going to happen.
But if you have a problem with a brother or sister, or has ought with one another in the faith then take it to them privately then acting all crazy in front of new Christians who are weak in the faith.
I did noticed that the King James version says " Offenses " and other version says cause to stumble with sin.
You can still cause someone to stumble in the faith without sinning, so those other bible versions missed the mark.
That sermon, or setting didn't end until verse 11 in chapter 17.

[DouglasKC]

I don't take anyone's teaching for I don't put my trust in man. I rather trust a dog more than a human.

When it comes to God that is exactly the right thing to do!

I seen it all people who worship the congregation or church that they attend to and follow their leader or pastor at every word as the Gospel, that's how the great deception is going to happen.

Couldn't agree more.

Impressionable minds molded into what the pastors want then the deception. I have seen pastors declare how " GREAT THIS CHURCH IS " all puffed up in pride with the sheeple following obediently while at the same time the pastor fleecing the flock for all it's worth.

Yup, scripture even warns about this:

Phl 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill:
Phl 1:16 The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains;

Peter's idea of a good minister:

1Pe 5:1 The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: 1Pe 5:2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly;

Unfortunately it seems to be more and more negative.

[cuban leaf]

In most religions (or really any belief system) there are self appointed gatekeepers.

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I started to get into it in front of a large crowd at my (at the time) new Baptist church (It’s pretty much all there is around here). I was asking the questions about anihilation and he would bring up the “bible 101 arguments” about lazarus and the rich man, etc. And I’d refute them. After only one or two (I really didn’t want to get into it) he held up his big King James bible and said, “I believe what the Word of God says about it.” and I, before I could stop myself, said, “what you believe is your interpretation of what the word of God says about it.” The guys face looked like a big blood orange and the conversation was over.

Thing is, the teaching around here is really shallow and many of these folks just believe what they are told because someone “smarter than them” said so. I’m trying to teach from the background and ask subtle questions or maks small points about scripture during sunday school.

I have a 2.5 hour round trip commute and listen to the bible on most commutes. It’s very interesting to listen to it without being confused by verse callouts every couple of seconds. It strings together better and points come together.

[Cletus.D.Yokel]

:: Love is an action. Love is a decision. It is not a feeling. ::

That is not Gospel Love but human love and Law (as opposed to Gospel). Don’t get me wrong, that love is salutary but...it is salvific.

Christ told us to, “Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and all your mind.” ! There ! will you find eternal life.

[American Constitutionalist]

" Well maybe because you start off with an insult! :-) "

Or hurt pride..... after all didn't Jesus say that offenses will come ?
What you see as a insult is speaking the truth.

[DouglasKC]

When they say “I was born that way”, my respons is, “Maybe you were born that way and maybe you weren’t. But we are ALL born with sinful temptations. So? I should not accept you practicing or trying to justify yours any more than you should accept me practicing or trying to justify mine.”

Exactly. My line is "You're homosexual behavior is no worse or better than the sin of my lusting sexually after someone who is not my wife. They're both sins".

[ravenwolf]

I’ll be dead serious here: the opportunities to share the gospel (during breaks, setup and teardown) are like picking the low hanging fruit.

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I used to spend a lot of time in one bar or another, that was most likely where i first heard some of the Gospel, a little from an ex pastor who said he was not fit to preach for the Lord any more.

[cuban leaf]

The KJV also grossly mistranslates a word to mean “mansions”. And that word is peppered heavily throuout both of our hymnals. I cringe every time I see that word within the four walls of a church.

[Cletus.D.Yokel]

sorry, humanistic love is NOT salvific

[cuban leaf]

We’re on exactly the same page with this one. We are redundant. Clearly, one of us must die. Out of curiosity, where do you live?

JK!

[Cletus.D.Yokel]

I find that the Thread Title is “starting off with an insult”. Otherwise I wouldn’t be posting.

[CodeToad]

Sounds like someone is making judgment, and God said not to do that.