Posted on 12/12/2013 12:59:05 PM PST by DouglasKC
How do you know you're saved?
Imagine you arrive at a most important banquet that's hosted by Christ Himself. After all--you're a Christian. Picture coming to His home and walking right up to the door. Perhaps you're a little surprised that the door is closed and you're shut outside. But not to be deterred, you knock and knock. No response, no reaction. So you call out, "Jesus open the door, Lord it's me." Still, no response, no reaction. At long last, you hear Jesus' voice and He says, "I never knew you!" What a devastating and shocking situation in which to find yourself.
(Excerpt) Read more at ucg.org ...
Correction: One of four
What does Jacob’s life tell you, prior to Haran?
And if you learn what the Bible means when it states that David was a man after God’s own Heart, then you will have a better grasp of what it means to be saved in the here and now, not pie in the sky after you die.
Maybe we're at odds because we have different assumptions. What exactly do you mean by "saved"? I consider "saved" to mean that I cannot die. Right now I can die. But Christ has promised that in the future he will give me eternal life and then I will never die. Christ won't go back on that promise. But I can reject it. Christ won't give me eternal life if I don't want it. To do otherwise would be cruel.
I base these beliefs on a number of scriptures. For example in Hebrew 11 Paul refers to a host of great biblical figures. He says about them:
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Later:
Heb 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, Heb 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
When this is read in context it's evident that Paul is saying that Gods' future salvation, his promise, his promise of perfection, is NOT going to happen for some Christians now and some later. It's going to happen for all Christians at the same point of time.
That's the lesson of Matthew 20. It doesn't matter if you were a Christian for a hundred years or for one year. God's promise is the same, our reward is the same.
The time when Christians ARE saved is at the return of Jesus Christ:
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
It's the same event here:
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
and here where it's called the first resurrection:
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
This salvation, this throwing off our mortal body and becoming immortal, is a future event that occurs at the return of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
New Testament scripture is literally jam packed with the advice, encouragement, exhortation and need to overcome, to stay diligent, to not be deceived, to keep our eye on the prize, to not lose our crowns, to stay focused to TRY because we can fall away and reject this wonderful gift that the Lord has promised us.
LOL can’t see the free medal inside. What is it?
There is dead in spirit, then there is dead in body. Jesus brings Life to the dead spirit. Later, there is the bringing life to the dead body. The Life in the dead human spirit happens when you believe on Him as your Savior. It happens while you are still in a body under the sentence of death physical.
In Thessalonians, Paul relates a time when the dead in Christ shall rise, then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them, changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. So there will be a moment when even those still in a body and physically alive will be 'translated'. But ONLY if they are spiritually alive by His Spirit Life within their human spirit.
Show me some scriptures that indicate that there is such a thing as a dead spirit. I read that a body without a spirit is dead:
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
I also see that the death and resurrection of Christ is characterized as being dead physically and being alive again through the spirit:
1Pe_3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
I see the same future promise given to believers:
Rom_8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
I see that even with the spirit of Christ in us our bodies are still dead. But no such thing as a dead spirit.
Rom_8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
So what exactly do you mean by dead in spirit?
The Bible indicates that the spirit is the holy place in man's soul, and that this portion of the soul of the individual can be made alive by the presence of God's SPirit in the human spirit. You would have us believe that we walk the earth with no spirit in our soul until some moment when God gives us a spirit for our believing in Him (Jesus) as our Soter, our deliverer. Go argue with your image in the mirror. You will get more out of it than expecting me to awaken you through your efforts to ignore reason and common sense.
I don't want to argue. I want to see evidence from scripture for statements you're making...that's all.
The Bible indicates that the spirit is the holy place in man's soul, and that this portion of the soul of the individual can be made alive by the presence of God's SPirit in the human spirit.
On this I think someone constructed this hypothesis based on scant evidence and wrong assumptions. I think that you're simply repeating it without really understanding how it contradicts scripture.
You would have us believe that we walk the earth with no spirit in our soul until some moment when God gives us a spirit for our believing in Him (Jesus) as our Soter, our deliverer.
Biblically it works like this:
Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
We are made of dead stuff. Elements, atoms, etc that have no life. God gives us a paranormal "something" that gives us life. Call it a spirit but it's NOT the same spirit as the holy spirit. These two thing combined give us our soul....which isn't unique to people.
Gen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”
The words translated "soul" in gen 2:7 and "living creatures" in gen 1:20 is the same word...nephesh. It means a soul...a living breathing creature man or not.
God certainly has given man a different component than animals...a different spirit. But that spirit is NOT the holy spirit of God and it certainly is not dead or else we would be dead.
I think where we maybe conflicting is that you believe that man has an immortal or an eternal soul. In other words, that man has eternal life inherent within our souls even before God gives us his holy spirit. This just isn't so. We are for all intents and purposes walking around dead. We're made of dead material that is ONLY alive because the power of God sustains us.
Have a nice evening. I'm through here. I'm sure you can find someone to argue with. You seem to be purposely ignoring the scripture references I've offered, in order to continue in your closed view. Enjoy your ride.
So as long as Christians and the Jews don’t make any waves the world is ok with that while they lead us to the box car train onto the gas cambers.
And it happens everyday in the lives of Christians whether they admit it or not... that is, COVET.
What happened to Adams ‘living nephesh’? he continued to have a nephesh after he fell, but the Life/Light that was in his spirit went out. I am not referring to the Ruach of God, I am referring to the ruach of Adam. For that ruach to be alive (a state of being, alive with eternal capacity, then eating from the tree of life would allow the body to also remain alive with the living ruach) requires God’s Grace. The first couple were cut off from the tree of life so that they would not remain bodily alive with a dead soul, a soul without the life God breathed into Adam so that he was a living nephesh, not just a nephesh. Look up neshama ... and don’t bother posting more, I’m no longer interested in Church of God escatology.
Sorry, that's what scripture said about Adam and Eve. It said that when they sinned that God barred the way to the garden so they couldn't eat of the tree of life. In other words, they sinned and lost the capability of having eternal life. We're the same way. In fact the lie of Satan was centered around this:
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
Gen 3:2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden;
Gen 3:3 “but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”
Gen 3:4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
Gen 3:5 “For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
If they had not sinned then Adam and Eve would never had died. Once they did, death came to them. Satan lied, Adam and Eve died.
Have a nice evening. I'm through here. I'm sure you can find someone to argue with. You seem to be purposely ignoring the scripture references I've offered, in order to continue in your closed view. Enjoy your ride.
Thank you and enjoy your evening also.
Amen. Abraham believed God, and it was counted for him righteousness.
We do sin but as we go through our Christian life the natural result of allowing Christ to live through us is that we should be willfully sinning less and less...our own minds and hearts go through a renewal..a metamorphosis.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
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