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To: StormPrepper; Colofornian; Elsie; Tennessee Nana
There have been millions of people that have died inside communist countries that never had the chance to hear the truth. Through out all ages there have been people, that through no fault of their own, were born into a circumstance where hearing or worshiping God was not possible. Therefore, through no fault of their own they were not able to seek God.

Look who's limiting God now. Scripture says that ALL of creation screams that there is a Creator and that people exchange the truth for a lie. If God says He is a rewarder of all those who diligently seek Him and that He WILL be found when we search for Him with all our hearts, then I'm gonna believe Him over a false religion that teaches souls can be saved AFTER they die by proxy baptism and/or spirit missionaries. Nowhere in the Bible is that sort of folly taught.

"Angels aren't people, people don't become angels."

Your logic is flawed. Didn't Jesus come to earth and take up a body of flesh and bone and ascend into heaven? So Jesus proves that a heavenly being can come to earth, change, and still be a heavenly being. So it is with the Angels. Angels are messages and servants of God. It's a title not a species. A person can be a servant and messenger of God, come to earth, take up a body and return to heaven and still be a servant and messenger.

Your theology is flawed - and your logic isn't much better. Jesus is Almighty God incarnate - in the flesh - and He was born as a baby to a virgin (a prophetic miracle) taking on human flesh, blood and bones so that He could be the perfect sacrifice for our atonement. Jesus is more than a "heavenly being", He is GOD - the Creator of all beings - heavenly or earthly - as well as the entire universe. Without Jesus nothing was made that was made. Angels ARE God's messengers, His servants, but they were NEVER human beings and vice versa. Two separate created beings - angels and humans. Just because angels and humans can sometimes be used the same by the God doesn't mean they are the same beings.

But you've stated several times that you don't believe God speaks to man directly anymore. You've stated that you don't believe there can be anymore scripture. That's denying the power of God.

Don't put words in my mouth, please. God no longer reveals new truths to man - especially not any that would contradict those things He HAS already revealed. You said many times that you believe there CAN be more "Scripture" - actual God-breathed, carried along by the Holy Spirit Divine and sacred Scripture - and you point to the writings from Mormonism's founder and subsequent "prophets". You claim that the Holy Spirit "told" you they were all from Almighty God. I don't claim to be an expert at your religion, but from the things I HAVE read from it, it falls far short of the caliber that believers have come to expect from Christianity's universally recognized Scripture - the Holy Spirit has told me that they are bogus. You can believe what you want, but there is NOTHING you have that I need or want. My faith is firmly established in Jesus Christ and He is my rock, my foundation.

But... God measures your faith by your works not your words. It is by what we do that justifies before God our claims of faith in Jesus. That's straight out of the NT. And that's why so many who claim faith on Jesus will be cast out as spoken of in Luke 13.

Wrong! Man looks on the outside, God looks on the heart:

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Romans 3:19-28)

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Galatians 2:16)

I've got PLENTY more if you are interested in the truth of the gospel of the grace of God.

209 posted on 12/11/2013 9:16:53 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
"If God says He is a rewarder of all those who diligently seek Him and that He WILL be found when we search for Him with all our hearts,"

Are you saying that anyone that didn't hear of God in this life is going to hell? Please clarify.

"then I'm gonna believe Him over a false religion that teaches souls"

In 1838, the Prophet Joseph Smith was asked, "Wherein do you differ from other sects?" He answered by saying, "In that we believe the Bible, and all the other sects profess to believe their interpretations of the Bible and their creeds."

That's very profound and very true.

"...then I'm gonna believe Him over a false religion that teaches souls can be saved AFTER they die by proxy baptism and/or spirit missionaries.

1 Peter 3: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

After Jesus died and before the resurrection, He went to the spirit world and taught the people there. And in 4:6 it is described why.

1 Peter 4:
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.


The gospel was/is preached to the dead so that they can have a fair chance of accepting it. Because God is fair and just.

"Wrong! Man looks on the outside, God looks on the heart:"

God looks at both.

John 9:
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.


Jesus said that even He is commanded to do works.

James 2:17
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


There is no faith with out works.

Revelation 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


Every person is judged by their works.

Titus 2:7
7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,


Good works prove we have faith. Doing the exact works of that Jesus commands proves that we have faith in Him.

Baptism for the dead is in the top three works God has given us. As it is shown in Titus, a pattern of good works must be shown. When the books are opened and your life is judged, can you say you did the work for your dead that the Lord has commanded you to do?

1 Cor 15:
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?


There was a false belief of some of the Jews at that time that there was no resurrection. Paul mentions the doctrine baptism for the dead while trying to correct this false doctrine which was being taught at the Church in Corinth.

They did it because Jesus taught them to. They were Jesus' true Church. We do it because Jesus taught us to. Because we are Jesus' true Church.

Malachi 4:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

This prophesy is about genealogy work. Turning our hearts to our ancestors.

The prophet Elijah has already returned.

"Elijah appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple.
Joseph Smith described the appearance of the ancient prophet Elijah to him and Oliver Cowdery on April 3, 1836, in the Kirtland Temple, later recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 110:13–16: “Another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:"

I don't see why you don't just throw out the Holy Bible and replace it with a Holy Index Card. It would just have one line on it, "Believe Jesus is Lord and you'll be saved!"

I think that would simplify your whole argument and totally give you deniability for all the writings that cause confusion. The HIC. I won't even copyright it. You can claim all the credit.

The rest of the Bible only helps us Mormons. Like 1 Cor 15:40-41. Modern "Christianity" makes no reference to it. Mainly because they don't know anything about it. We Mormons talk about it all the time. It's central to the Lord's plan of salvation. And the Lord has revealed a ton about the different glories to the latter-day prophets.

The HIC is the perfect way to dismiss all of that stuff. I bet you could make a lot of money off something like that to. So see... I'm helping you out.

It'll make the evangelical argument so much easier to swallow.... well, right up till the judgment anyways.
211 posted on 12/12/2013 11:55:35 AM PST by StormPrepper
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