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To: boatbums
That was your strongest point? Seriously? Perhaps it is a matter of semantics. When you use the term "perfected" - as the passage in Luke 13

It's a strong point because it highlights the irrational and convoluted understanding of modern "Christianity" about the nature of God.

You wrote a whole page of logical gymnastics to try to explain away the term "perfected" when it's applied to Jesus. You can't just give a straight clear simple answer because you don't know it or can't because of the implications.

1. God the Father has a body of flesh and bone.
2. Jesus is His only begotten Son and also has a body of flesh and bone.
3. The Holy Ghost is a spirit.
This constitutes the God Head.

1. Jesus was born as all men are born, through a human mortal mother.
2. Jesus had to learn and grow as all people do.
3. Jesus experienced trials and temptations just like men so that He would be able to understand what all men experience.
4. Jesus had to obey all the laws of His Father just like all men are commanded to do.
5. Jesus lead a sinless "perfect" life.
6. Jesus was "perfected", meaning completely perfect, when He was resurrected and took up His glorified body.

Do you think the Prophets spoken of in Rev 11 are going to be quoting "The Gill's Exposition of the Bible"?

If you reject these two prophets as prophets will you still be allowed into heaven?
157 posted on 12/04/2013 7:12:50 AM PST by StormPrepper
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To: StormPrepper
It's a strong point because it highlights the irrational and convoluted understanding of modern "Christianity" about the nature of God.

The only "irrational and convoluted" understanding here about the nature of God is coming from the barely two hundred year old man made religion called Mormonism. Christianity understands what Almighty God revealed about His nature through the Bible. It's all throughout God's word and it takes evil intent to consciously pervert what He said.

You wrote a whole page of logical gymnastics to try to explain away the term "perfected" when it's applied to Jesus. You can't just give a straight clear simple answer because you don't know it or can't because of the implications.

Actually, it was a clear and straightforward answer that included Holy Scripture. I know it and, if you don't, you alone can figure out the implications for why you can't or won't. There IS a difference between "perfected" and "sinless". Jesus did not need to work at being sinless, he was God in the flesh, he cannot sin and it is why he came to earth as a man so that he could give his life as a ransom for many. He was the spotless, unblemished Lamb of God who came to take away the sins of the world. He didn't die for his own sins - because he had none - but for all those who receive Him as Savior.

1. God the Father has a body of flesh and bone.

Nowhere in the Bible can you point to that says this. In fact, in Rom. 1:20: "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." God's spirit nature has always existed. He was not created, the Father NEVER had a flesh and bone body. Only the Son of God did when he came to earth as a human baby, conceived by the Holy Spirit into the womb of a virgin - just as ancient Scripture said he would. To say God the Father had a human body is to imply he was created - that He did not always exist as He said - you make Him to be a liar. God is not a man, that he should lie (Numbers 23:19).

2. Jesus is His only begotten Son and also has a body of flesh and bone.

Now He does. But prior to his incarnation, he didn't. He was one with the Father from eternity, before all time and without Him was NOTHING created that was created.

3. The Holy Ghost is a spirit. This constitutes the God Head.

Yes, we agree on this part.

1. Jesus was born as all men are born, through a human mortal mother.

Yes, with the exception that he had NO human father. Mary was a VIRGIN when she conceived. Jesus is both God and man, two parts of his one nature. Each of the persons of the Godhead is distinct, yet they are all each, by nature, God. One God in three persons - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

2. Jesus had to learn and grow as all people do.

He "learned" by experiencing and his human body grew into a man from a tiny baby.

3. Jesus experienced trials and temptations just like men so that He would be able to understand what all men experience.

Yes, For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (Heb. 4:15-16)

4. Jesus had to obey all the laws of His Father just like all men are commanded to do.

Jesus was sinless from all eternity, having a human nature did not remove that part of his attributes. The difference between us and Jesus is that we cannot be sinless, we have all sinned and fall short of God's perfection (Rom. 3:23). For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. (Romans 8:3) We can NEVER be good enough to save ourselves, which is why Jesus came. He did not need to "work out his own salvation" as you claimed, he came specifically for our salvation and had he not come, we would all be damned for eternity.

5. Jesus lead a sinless "perfect" life.

Yes, he did because he was GOD. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (II Cor. 5:21) For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2:17)

6. Jesus was "perfected", meaning completely perfect, when He was resurrected and took up His glorified body.

Jesus' earthly ministry was finished, completed, perfected, but he was ALWAYS God and therefore sinless. We sin because we are sinners. Jesus never sinned because he IS God. Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. (John 19:28-30)

Do you think the Prophets spoken of in Rev 11 are going to be quoting "The Gill's Exposition of the Bible"? If you reject these two prophets as prophets will you still be allowed into heaven?

I'll excuse your petty dig at Gill's - a resource that contains far more Biblical understanding than what you have been dishing out. The two witnesses during the Tribulation will not be speaking to me - though I already believe what they will say - as I will already have been taken up in the Rapture. They will, however, be speaking to people such as yourself who reject the Gospel of the grace of God through Jesus Christ. I hope you won't continue to reject their message as you won't get another chance to change your mind and it will not be a time that true believers will find it easy to be faithful. Come out of false religion while you can. Please don't put it off.

169 posted on 12/04/2013 3:52:40 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: StormPrepper
If you reject these two prophets as prophets will you still be allowed into heaven?

You've rejected one of your own!

How wise is THAT???


"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;

and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,

and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.

Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)

173 posted on 12/05/2013 11:00:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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