Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: StormPrepper
How about the strongest points of my argument for starters. Luke 2:52 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. If Jesus was perfected from the beginning, how could he increase in favour[sic] with God and Wisdom?

That was your strongest point? Seriously? Perhaps it is a matter of semantics. When you use the term "perfected" - as the passage in Luke 13 that you cited when Jesus was talking about his goals and purpose for the actions he took - you seem to take this to mean MORE than Jesus' finishing his work and apply it to his "perfection" or "sinlessness". You said that he had to "work out his own salvation" in order to rejoin the Father in Heaven. This view comes from that basic LDS premise that Jesus was only a man who had to work his way to Divinity - just like Mormonism believes men within the LDS system can also attain their own godhood. Those are the LDS-colored glasses I spoke of. You start out on the wrong footing so it's no wonder that anything after that will also be incorrect.

However, if you start with - like I said - the Scriptural understanding that there is NO OTHER GOD but Jehovah (the I AM) and that He always was and always will be, that Jesus is Almighty God in the flesh (incarnate), that Almighty God is the only Savior, that Jesus took on human flesh so that he could be the sinless sacrifice for our sins, then you can understand that the Son of God, Jesus, was both Divine and human. The Eternal Father has an Eternal Son. There is a hierarchy within the Godhead - not one of superiority but of purpose. That is how Jesus could say that he came to do his Father's will and also how the Holy Spirit, also God, was sent by the Father and the Son to be the Comforter and to lead us into all truth.

The verse from Luke 2 was speaking of the Son of God (Jesus) who came into this world as a little baby. He learned obedience from the things he suffered (Hebrews 5:8). He, being found in appearance as a man, humbled himself by becoming obedient to death -- even death on a cross! (Philippians 2:8). Jesus became OUR high priest, and, as a partaker of our nature (while continuing to be God), he could become our Kinsman Redeemer, and make propitiation for our sins by His death, burial and resurrection. The Gill's Exposition of the Bible has this to say about that passage in Hebrews 5:8-

    Though he were a Son,.... The Son of God, as the Vulgate Latin version reads; not by creation, nor by adoption, nor by office, but by nature, being the only begotten of the Father, having the same nature and perfections with him: yet learned he obedience; not to his parents, or civil magistrates, though that is true; nor merely to the precepts of the law, which he did; but unto death: through sufferings he became obedient to death, even the death of the cross: and this he learnt; not that he was ignorant of the nature of it; nor was he destitute of an obedient disposition to it; but the meaning is, he had an experience of it, and effected it; and which was voluntary, and done in our room and stead; and is the rule and the measure of our righteousness before God: and this he learned, by the things which he suffered; from men, from devils, and from the justice of God. Christ's sonship did not exempt him from obedience and sufferings; this shows the dignity of Christ's person, that he is the Son of God, not as Mediator, for as such he is a servant; and it would be no wonder that he should learn obedience as a servant; and this shows also the great humility and condescension of Christ in obeying and suffering for us; though so great a person; and likewise the vile nature of sin, and the strictness of divine justice: and we may learn from hence, not to expect to be exempted from sufferings on account of sonship; nor to conclude we are not sons, because we suffer; and that afflictions are instructive, and by them experience is learned.

I agree with this and hope this helps to answer your questions. Jesus was always obedient to the Father's will and he learned through experience as he grew and matured how to be human, yet always retaining his Divine nature. He had to humble himself to become a man, but he did it so that we could be saved through him. I have no fear of the truth, do you?

152 posted on 12/03/2013 9:23:06 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies ]


To: boatbums
That was your strongest point? Seriously? Perhaps it is a matter of semantics. When you use the term "perfected" - as the passage in Luke 13

It's a strong point because it highlights the irrational and convoluted understanding of modern "Christianity" about the nature of God.

You wrote a whole page of logical gymnastics to try to explain away the term "perfected" when it's applied to Jesus. You can't just give a straight clear simple answer because you don't know it or can't because of the implications.

1. God the Father has a body of flesh and bone.
2. Jesus is His only begotten Son and also has a body of flesh and bone.
3. The Holy Ghost is a spirit.
This constitutes the God Head.

1. Jesus was born as all men are born, through a human mortal mother.
2. Jesus had to learn and grow as all people do.
3. Jesus experienced trials and temptations just like men so that He would be able to understand what all men experience.
4. Jesus had to obey all the laws of His Father just like all men are commanded to do.
5. Jesus lead a sinless "perfect" life.
6. Jesus was "perfected", meaning completely perfect, when He was resurrected and took up His glorified body.

Do you think the Prophets spoken of in Rev 11 are going to be quoting "The Gill's Exposition of the Bible"?

If you reject these two prophets as prophets will you still be allowed into heaven?
157 posted on 12/04/2013 7:12:50 AM PST by StormPrepper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson