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To: daniel1212
Two gospels is simply is not what Paul is teaching, but true faith is manifest by what one does. For salvation is by faith, which is counted for righteousness, justifying the unGodly, but not a faith abstract from who Christ is, but one who "condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:4)

As I see it, the doctrine at the beginning of the church was faith and the works that are included under the authority of the Jewish laws...

The law was righteous and those who kept the law became justified...

Paul revealed to this early church that a transition had taken place whereby Jesus is the only righteousness and belief in Jesus without the law replaced their earlier doctrine for justification...

181 posted on 11/24/2013 4:04:48 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool; smvoice
>> Jesus is the only righteousness and belief in Jesus without the law replaced their earlier doctrine for justification...<<

Jesus righteousness was accounted to us. It is His righteousness that the Father sees in us. Not our own due to any effort on our part. Even the faith we have is His faith within us.

183 posted on 11/24/2013 4:45:31 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Iscool; daniel1212; redleghunter
As I see it, the doctrine at the beginning of the church was faith and the works that are included under the authority of the Jewish laws...

Me too. Although *not* the Jewish Laws, but rather the Law of YHWH... The Torah.

The law was righteous and those who kept the law became justified...

The Torah IS righteous... Yeshua is the Word made flesh... And *no one* *EVER* has been justified by the Law (except Yeshua).

Paul revealed to this early church that a transition had taken place whereby Jesus is the only righteousness and belief in Jesus without the law replaced their earlier doctrine for justification...

How then does Yeshua say "go away from me you workers of iniquity (lawlessness), I never knew you," if the Torah matters no more? Or is there a new law?

But then again, you may be right - And we should welcome the world into the church.... because if you are right, then the homos are right too... the liberal protestants hit the nail on the head - the law is done, and you can't pick and choose - Either the whole law, or none of it... So none of it. I guess.

Of COURSE the Torah still matters - without it there is no definition of sin. How does one repent if one does not know what to repent of? How does one go and sin no more? How does the Torah lead one to Yeshua if one never even reads it?

This is why the OP is critical - without Torah, there IS no obedience, because there is nothing to obey. How can that be right?

It isn't.

186 posted on 11/24/2013 5:48:42 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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