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To: Iscool; daniel1212; redleghunter
As I see it, the doctrine at the beginning of the church was faith and the works that are included under the authority of the Jewish laws...

Me too. Although *not* the Jewish Laws, but rather the Law of YHWH... The Torah.

The law was righteous and those who kept the law became justified...

The Torah IS righteous... Yeshua is the Word made flesh... And *no one* *EVER* has been justified by the Law (except Yeshua).

Paul revealed to this early church that a transition had taken place whereby Jesus is the only righteousness and belief in Jesus without the law replaced their earlier doctrine for justification...

How then does Yeshua say "go away from me you workers of iniquity (lawlessness), I never knew you," if the Torah matters no more? Or is there a new law?

But then again, you may be right - And we should welcome the world into the church.... because if you are right, then the homos are right too... the liberal protestants hit the nail on the head - the law is done, and you can't pick and choose - Either the whole law, or none of it... So none of it. I guess.

Of COURSE the Torah still matters - without it there is no definition of sin. How does one repent if one does not know what to repent of? How does one go and sin no more? How does the Torah lead one to Yeshua if one never even reads it?

This is why the OP is critical - without Torah, there IS no obedience, because there is nothing to obey. How can that be right?

It isn't.

186 posted on 11/24/2013 5:48:42 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

The Law was put in charge to lead us to Christ.

No one is ever justified by keeping the Law.

Read Galatians 2-3.


188 posted on 11/24/2013 5:56:27 PM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: roamer_1
But then again, you may be right - And we should welcome the world into the church.... because if you are right, then the homos are right too... the liberal protestants hit the nail on the head - the law is done, and you can't pick and choose - Either the whole law, or none of it... So none of it. I guess.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If we follow these two commandments, we will have honored and fulfilled the law completely...

Gal_3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal_3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

People seem to always forget that the Christian has the Spirit of God living in them...A teacher, a guide...And there is a constant battle going on with the flesh...

Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

How then does Yeshua say "go away from me you workers of iniquity (lawlessness), I never knew you," if the Torah matters no more? Or is there a new law?

Kinda...

Rom_2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

The law has become spiritual instead of legal...

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

As I see it, the Torah was our schoolmaster...While we are encouraged to follow the Torah in our heart/spirit by Christ who lives in us, the Torah is no longer our judge and executioner...

197 posted on 11/24/2013 7:05:50 PM PST by Iscool
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