Posted on 11/13/2013 3:34:41 PM PST by NYer
Ultra-traditionalist Catholics have openly challenged Pope Francis by disrupting one of his favorite events, a ceremony that he and Jewish leaders led in the Metropolitan Cathedral each year to promote religious harmony on the anniversary of the beginning of the Holocaust.
The annual ceremony brings together Catholics, Jews and Protestants to mark Kristallnacht, the Nazi-led mob violence in 1938 when about 1,000 Jewish synagogues were burned and thousands of Jews were forced into concentration camps, launching the genocide that killed 6 million Jews.
A small group disrupted Tuesday night’s ceremony by shouting the rosary and the “Our Father” prayer, and spreading pamphlets saying “followers of false gods must be kept out of the sacred temple.”
Buenos Aires Archbishop Mario Poli, named by Francis to replace him as Argentina’s top church official, appealed for calm as others in the audience rose up to repudiate them, and the protesters were soon escorted out by police.
“Let there be peace. Shalom,” Poli then said, urging everyone to take their seats for a ceremony that was also led by Rabbi Abraham Skorka, a close friend of the pope who co-wrote a book of dialogue seeking common ground between Judaism and Catholicism.
“Dear Jewish brothers, please feel at home, because that’s the way Christians want it, despite these signs of intolerance,” Poli said. “Your presence here doesn’t desecrate a temple of God. We will continue in peace this encounter that Pope Francis always promoted, valued and appreciated so much.”
The Rev. Christian Bouchacourt, the South America leader of the Society of Saint Pius X, said Wednesday that the protesters belong to his organization and that they have a right to feel outraged when rabbis preside over a ceremony in a cathedral. “I recognize the authority of the pope, but he is not infallible and in this case, does things we cannot accept,” Bouchacourt said in an interview with Radio La Red.
“This wasn’t a desire to make a rebellion, but to show our love to the Catholic Church, which was made for the Catholic faith,” Bouchacourt added. “A Mass isn’t celebrated in a synagogue, nor in a mosque. The Muslims don’t accept it. In the same way, we who are Catholics cannot accept the presence of another faith in our church.”
The Buenos Aires Herald has this account:
“A group of them attempted to spill their poison on the victims of the Holocaust,” said DAIA Jewish community group head Julio Schlosser, who was present at the meeting. “It’s very dangerous if we do not all publicly condemn acts like these, everyone, Jews, Catholics and Muslims.”
As the incident developed and the Lefebvrists, mainly youths, were insulted for their actions, Father Fernando Giannetti requested they leave in the name of Buenos Aires Archbishop Mario Poli, calling for those in attendance not to submit to “an act of provocation.”
After some minutes of tension, police officials arrived at the Cathedral, although they did not intervene, while Giannetti prayed Saint Francis of Assisi’s Prayer for Peace.
From the the Hail Mary: "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners...
Catholics are asking Mary to pray for us. Who do you think Mary is praying to?
“followers of false gods must be kept out of the sacred temple.”
I think it’s statements such as this, which are being called “poison.”
________________________________________
It certainly looks like poison to me. Satan encourages and relishes division.
then quoting me as to an "itch" towards a particular sort of reply --- doesn't quite cut it, for that "itch" is a widely dispersed sort of thing.
Look, you started the "getting personal" road with me, the moment you began the amateur catechumen question-and-answer lecture series. If you have something to say, just say it. Don't drag me into it. But see? Since you began this stuff, I can't get away from it, without getting "personal" in return. Happy now?
That sort of thing makes it impossible to communicate.
The "itch" I was speaking about is the typical, expected reaction to certain statements. I've seen the discussions a THOUSAND TIMES. It rarely changes...
The hint that it is "out there" speaks of more than one person, again, towards typical response.
If you’re in the SSPX, and you’re trying to make the argument that you’re the good guys and the regular Catholic Church are the bad guys by trying to shout down a Kristallnacht memorial service, you’re doing it wrong. And if you’re trying to justify it to a group of Catholics, Protestants and Jews by calling the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob a false god, you deserve the Nelson Muntz point-and-laugh.
difference between dulia & veneration = puh-tAY-toe po-tAH-toe
You said you knew the itch was out there; you were addressing me, only. You asked me to admit it. I don’t have an itch. You were wrong.
Heck! You dragged your own self onto this thread by disparaging Catholicism and the Blessed Mother. I do have something to say; and I've been saying it. I'm sorry you don't like it.
No the difference is between dulia/hyperdulia and latria. That's where many non-Catholics are confused and think we worship Mary and the saints.
But still --- this is becoming all about "me". Just STOP doing that.
Speak to issues, stick to those as much as possible. Leave my own "person" out of it.
I understand the theology and the apologetic better than most "Catholics". So please --skip the two-bit lectures when addressing myself. It only serves to further irritate. But congratulations! We have now gone far afield from the more central point which I raised.
The "Our Father" instructional given by Christ Himself, does not include addressing prayers to anyone but the Creator, Himself.
I know from both experience, and the Spirit also -- that there will be at least one who encounters the words previous to those, while yet reading those -- will have their mind turn towards the sort of thinking I outlined -- before getting to the outlining of the thought.
As I said --- "out there".
Once again, if Jesus' Father is "our Father", who's "our Mother"?
Do you claim to have the same Father of Christ but not his same mother?
And what did I say about "itches"...?
Itch scratched. Objections notwithstanding
What else has this "spirit" been telling you? Am I one of those "catholic" demons"?
Particularly after having dealt with the very issue in another manner --- twice over, and have had those efforts seemingly, entirely ignored.
You may do as you wish -- but I would advise others to just do as Christ directed (as to how to pray) instead.
You will need to re-frame that question, if answer is expected. Then -- not complain when it is answered.
To do so, to possibly better understand my intended meanings better -- you may need to go back to the comment which you now reference, and carefully re-read it in entirety. Then, it may be possible for you to better understand. As the question is framed --- shows me that is not, or else is being misconstrued.
Whether that be accidental or not --- I do not know --- but will tell you --- that sort of thing --- "demons" do thrive upon. They just love subtle little twists of meaning and implication, which they can use to change perceptions, if not set people at one anothers' throats.
I understand you consternation. Let me know when you're ready to answer them.
I expect no answers from you; you have provided none to date.
saying as towards that [above];
It certainly looks like poison to me
Exactly. And some tried to hide (and justify) it behind rosary beads/prayer. Just lovely isn't it?
I'm sorry; I'm not a charismatic Catholic, so I don't understand "tongues". And I don't believe those who claim they do.
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