You can parse the meaning of “is” with Bill Clinton, but PROTESTANTS translated the scripture into the vernacular and placed it in the hands of commoners. The Catholic Church did not.
Allowing a few hundred to be distributed, sometimes requiring dispensation of the Pope, is hardly the same as distributing hundreds of thousands. If you cannot see the difference between 100 and 100,000...well, everyone else can.
““but as an example of the measures Catholics, operating in accordance with the Council of Trent, took to suppress vernacular translations - and WHY they did so.”
Applying that to the Sorbonne Index was an error. Applying it to the Papal Index makes a true statement. My ONLY error was applying it to Sorbonne, rather than allowing that the Sorbonne ban mirrored the common practice of the Catholic Church over hundreds of years.
“Tyndale too never finished the whole Bible so he didn’t ensure “that MILLIONS could” read the Bible either.”
He finished the New Testament personally, and was working on the Old when his efforts were interrupted by his death under the direction of the Catholic Church. His translation was continued, and most of it was incorporated when Coverdale finished translating the Old Testament:
“Coverdale based his New Testament on Tyndale’s translation. For the Old Testament, Coverdale used Tyndale’s published Pentateuch and possibly his published Jonah.”
“Miles Coverdale (see below) continued Tyndale’s work by translating those portions of the Bible (including the Apocrypha) which Tyndale had not lived to translate himself, and publishing the complete work. In 1537, the “Matthew Bible” (essentially the Tyndale-Coverdale Bible under another man’s name to spare the government embarrassment) was published in England with the Royal Permission. Six copies were set up for public reading in Old St Paul’s Church, and throughout the daylight hours the church was crowded with those who had come to hear it. One man would stand at the lectern and read until his voice gave out, and then he would stand down and another would take his place. All English translations of the Bible from that time to the present century are essentially revisions of the Tyndale-Coverdale work.”
Henry VIII then had the Coverdale Bible distributed throughout England. And, indeed, much of Tyndale’s New Testament found its way into the KJV.
Of course, there aren’t many who would be proud that the Catholic Church condemned Tyndale to death as a heretic, although I suppose a few are happy about it.
“I don’t think his real goal was to “allow commoners to read the scriptures” since that was already happening. I think his goal was to push his own Lutheran like heresy.”
Tyndale and his associates managed, after his death, to make it possible for anyone who could read English to read the scripture for themselves in England. This came well over 100 years after Thomas Arundel, “by divine permission archbishop of Canterbury, primate of all England, and legate of the apostolical see” ordered:
“The translation of the text of Holy Scripture out of one tongue into another is a dangerous thing; as blessed Jerome testifies, because it is not easy to make the sense in all respects the same; as the same blessed Jerome confesses that he made frequent mistakes in this business, although he was inspired: therefore we enact and ordain that no one henceforth do by his own authority translate any text of Holy Scripture into the English tongue or any other by way of book, pamphlet, or treatise. Nor let any such book, pamphlet, or treatise now lately composed in the time of John Wicklif aforesaid, or since, or hereafter to be composed, be read in whole or in part, in public or in private, under pain of the greater excommunication, till that translation have been approved by the diocesan of the place, or if occasion shall require, by a provincial Council. Let him that do contrary be punished in the same manner as a supporter of heresy and error.”
In between 1408 & Tyndale, no one received permission to publish Wycliffe’s translation and no one received permission to produce a new one. Tyndale asked, and was denied.
It was obviously in the power of the Catholic Church to get the Scriptures into the hands of commoners, but it refused, and punished those who tried. Burning Tyndale at the stake was hardly a bright and shining moment in Catholic history.
“You can parse the meaning of “is” with Bill Clinton, but PROTESTANTS translated the scripture into the vernacular and placed it in the hands of commoners. The Catholic Church did not.”
Catholics had produced Bibles and Biblical books in vernacular languages for over a millennium before Protestants first walked the earth.
“Allowing a few hundred to be distributed, sometimes requiring dispensation of the Pope, is hardly the same as distributing hundreds of thousands. If you cannot see the difference between 100 and 100,000...well, everyone else can.”
The problem is that you are completely making up the “few hundred” and “100” idea. The truth is that no one knows how many Bibles were hand copied (by Catholics) before moveable type was invented (by Catholics). You have done this at least twice now without even a rational argument for it. You’re making it up out of thin air – like so much else of what you post.
“Applying that to the Sorbonne Index was an error.”
Yet another on your part.
“Applying it to the Papal Index makes a true statement.”
No, actually it doesn’t.
“My ONLY error was applying it to Sorbonne, rather than allowing that the Sorbonne ban mirrored the common practice of the Catholic Church over hundreds of years.”
No, your errors are – on just this one particular aspect of your posts: 1) not making the proper distinction between the University of Sorbonne and the Catholic Church since the two institutions are not the same, 2) claiming – with no evidence for it whatsoever – that the French state and the Church were one in the same, 3) suggesting # 2 somehow proved that the Sorbonne was the same as the Church, 4) being incorrect on when the Council of Trent started, 5) being mistaken on the idea that Trent influenced the 1544 index from the Sorbonne when Trent had not started, 6) not doing a modicum of research to avoid numbers 1-5. You made at least 6 errors.
“He finished the New Testament personally,”
Which was still never read by millions nor gained access to the scriptures for millions. Your claim is still wrong in any case. This is yet another error on your part.
“and was working on the Old when his efforts were interrupted by his death under the direction of the Catholic Church. His translation was continued, and most of it was incorporated when Coverdale finished translating the Old Testament:”
And it was never read by millions.
“Henry VIII then had the Coverdale Bible distributed throughout England. And, indeed, much of Tyndale’s New Testament found its way into the KJV.”
And still that means Tyndale neither was read by millions nor was he responsible for gaining access to the Bible for millions. The Bishops’ Bible, Geneva Bible, the Coverdale Bible, Matthew’s Bible, the Great Bible, and the Geneva Bible and Taverner’s Bible and the New Testament of the Douay–Rheims Bible all influenced the KJV.
“Of course, there aren’t many who would be proud that the Catholic Church condemned Tyndale to death as a heretic, although I suppose a few are happy about it.”
There’s certainly less reason to lament his death than Edmund Campion’s.
“Tyndale and his associates managed, after his death, to make it possible for anyone who could read English to read the scripture for themselves in England.”
Not really. There were several competing English Bibles printed in the 16th century (see above).
“This came well over 100 years after Thomas Arundel, “by divine permission archbishop of Canterbury, primate of all England, and legate of the apostolical see” ordered:”
And?
“In between 1408 & Tyndale, no one received permission to publish Wycliffe’s translation and no one received permission to produce a new one.”
How do you know? The fact that no one printed it doesn’t mean no one received permission to do so.
“Tyndale asked, and was denied.”
Since he was a heretic there was no reason to entrust him with such a task.
“It was obviously in the power of the Catholic Church to get the Scriptures into the hands of commoners, but it refused, and punished those who tried.”
You have repeatedly failed to show this.
“Burning Tyndale at the stake was hardly a bright and shining moment in Catholic history.”
The existence of the heresy of Protestantism is hardly a bright and shining thing in the history of Christianity. Heretics come and go. The Church remains. In a 1,000 years, Tyndale’s Bible will be unintelligible for almost all of humanity (it already is for most people), while the Church will still be here.