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To: NYer
#28. is an interesting question which automatically brings up another: Why was the state established church at the time so intent on keeping the Bible inaccessible to the masses that they actually burned people at the stake for actually having it translated and printed into the vernacular language?
11 posted on 10/27/2013 6:33:36 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Vigilanteman

All the same, let’s not forget Protestants burned people to death as well.


13 posted on 10/27/2013 6:37:19 AM PDT by BeadCounter
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To: Vigilanteman; NYer

Please note that part of your response “the state established church at the time” is rather ambiguous as for exact time frame. Before the invention of the printing press, there was no inexpensive way to print Bibles, in any language, all Bibles and Books had to be hand copied.

Please provide an examples of you statement: “they actually burned people at the stake for actually having it translated and printed into the vernacular language.” And, who were “they?

I have not studied who was “burned at the stake” for what offense, thus you will be educating me. And I am not being sarcastic, but want to know.


23 posted on 10/27/2013 6:55:05 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Vigilanteman

You don’t know the answer to that? I thought everyone did?


44 posted on 10/27/2013 7:43:15 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Vigilanteman
Why was the state established church at the time so intent on keeping the Bible inaccessible to the masses that they actually burned people at the stake for actually having it translated and printed into the vernacular language?

Calvin had Michael Servetus killed because he taught in opposition to Calvin. That is the state established religion you are talking about, isn't it? Also I don't recall Henry VIII burring anyone at the stake, he did have them killed in some pretty horrific ways though. Could that be the state established religion you are referring to?

85 posted on 10/27/2013 10:19:19 AM PDT by verga (Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis)
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To: Vigilanteman; BeadCounter; GreyFriar; metmom; Salvation; markomalley; Heart-Rest
Why was the state established church at the time so intent on keeping the Bible inaccessible to the masses that they actually burned people at the stake for actually having it translated and printed into the vernacular language?

You have been mislead by someone or some organization. Let's review some facts .

The original writings from the Apostles themselves (the autographs) no longer exist. This is due partly to the perishable material (papyrus) used by the writers, and partly to the fact that the Roman emperors decreed the destruction of the sacred books of the Christians (Edict of Diocletian, A.D. 303).

Before translating the Bible into Latin, St. Jerome (4th century) had already translated into more common languages enough books to fill a library. (Saint Jerome, Maisie Ward, Sheed & Ward; A Companion to Scripture Studies, Steinmuller.)

Between the years 390 and 406 he translated the Old Testament directly from the Hebrew, and this completed work is known today as the "Old Latin Vulgate". The work had been requested by Pope Damasus, and Copies of St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate appeared uncorrupted as late as the 11th century, with some revisions by St. Peter Damian and Lanfranc. (Catholic Encyclopedia, "Place of the Bible in the Church", C.U.A.)

The Council of Carthage (397) was the first Council to publish a list of all the inspired books of the Bible. The Council of Florence repeated the canon of the Bible, and it was restated at the Council of Trent.

Versions of the whole or parts of the Bible in the language of the common people first appeared in Germany in the eighth century, in France and Hungary in the twelfth, and Italy, Spain, Holland, Poland and Bohemia in the thirteenth century.

In the 1500's in Italy, there were more than 40 vernacular editions of the Bible. France had 18 vernacular editions before 1547, and Spain began publishing editions in 1478, with full approval of the Spanish Inquisition. In all, 198 editions of the Bible were in the language of the laity, 626 editions all together, and all before the first Protestant version, and all having the full approval of the Church. (Where We Got the Bible, TAN Publishers)

For centuries before the invention of printing, the only way to duplicate the text of the Bible was to copy it by hand. Copyists could have made mistakes, but, they took more care with Scripture than with any other book.

The division of Bible chapters into numbered smaller sections was introduced to facilitate scholarly reference to the individual passages. In 1528, Santes Pagnino, a Dominican, published a Bible where each chapter was divided into verses usually consisting of single sentences.

Robert Estienne, a French printer, less than thirty years later, introduced the figures that divide or "chop up" verses of the Bible. His verse divisions became standard because he also printed a Concordance based on these editions.

In 1452, the Vulgate was the first book to be printed on the first mechanical press, invented by a Catholic - Johann Gutenberg; that particular edition is commonly known as the Gutenberg Bible. Again, the text was in Latin. (The Gutenberg Bible, Martin Davies.)
Source


As for those "burned at the stake", Modern historians have long known that the popular view of the Inquisition is a myth. The Inquisition was actually an attempt by the Catholic Church to stop unjust executions.

Heresy was a capital offense against the state. It was considered a type of treason. Rulers of the state, whose authority was believed to come from God, had no patience for heretics. Neither did common people, who saw heretics as dangerous outsiders who would bring down divine wrath.

When someone was accused of heresy in the early Middle Ages, they were brought to the local lord for judgment, just as if they had stolen a pig. It was not easy to discern whether the accused was really a heretic. The lord needed some basic theological training, very few did. The sad result is that uncounted thousands across Europe were executed by secular authorities without fair trials or a competent judge of the crime.

The Catholic Church's response to this problem was the Inquisition, an attempt to provide fair trials for accused heretics using laws of evidence and presided over by knowledgeable judges.

From the perspective of secular authorities, heretics were traitors to God and the king and therefore deserved death. From the perspective of the Church, however, heretics were lost sheep who had strayed from the flock. As shepherds, the pope and bishops had a duty to bring them back into the fold, just as the Good Shepherd had commanded them. So, while medieval secular leaders were trying to safeguard their kingdoms, the Church was trying to save souls. The Inquisition provided a means for heretics to escape death and return to the community.

Most people tried for heresy by the Inquisition were either acquitted or had their sentences suspended. Those found guilty of grave error were allowed to confess their sin, do penance, and be restored to the Body of Christ. The underlying assumption of the Inquisition was that, like lost sheep, heretics had simply strayed.

If, however, an inquisitor determined that a particular sheep had purposely left the flock, there was nothing more that could be done. Unrepentant or obstinate heretics were excommunicated and given over to secular authorities with pleas for mercy that were frequently ignored. Despite popular myth, the Inquisition did not burn heretics. It was the secular authorities that held heresy to be a capital offense, not the Church. The simple fact is that the medieval Inquisition saved uncounted thousands of innocent (and even not-so-innocent) people who would otherwise have been roasted by secular lords or mob rule.

The Spanish Inquisition was a civil (not religious) tribunal established in 1480 by Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile to replace the kinder and gentler Inquisition which was under the control of the Catholic Church.
Source


Vigilanteman, you have made this statement on previous threads. I hope the information provided puts an end to that discussion.

104 posted on 10/27/2013 11:10:26 AM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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