Questions for "Bible Christians" that they can't answer - Part 2

Catholic Convert ^ | October 27, 2013 | David Palm and Steve Ray

[NYer]

There are 38 questions + a few bonus questions. I have split them into two separate posts of 20 and 18 + bonus questions. In case you missed it, here is the link to Part 1. Are you ready?

21. Who in the Church had the authority to determine which books belonged in the New Testament canon and to make this decision binding on all Christians? If nobody has this authority, then can I remove or add books to the canon on my own authority?

22. Why do Protestant scholars recognize the early Church councils at Hippo and Carthage as the first instances in which the New Testament canon was officially ratified, but ignore the fact that those same councils ratified the Old Testament canon used by the Catholic Church today but abandoned by Protestants at the Reformation?

23. Why do Protestants follow postapostolic Jewish decisions on the boundaries of the Old Testament canon, rather than the decision of the Church founded by Jesus Christ?

24. How were the bishops at Hippo and Carthage able to determine the correct canon of Scripture, in spite of the fact that they believed all the distinctively Catholic doctrines such as the apostolic succession of bishops, the sacrifice of the Mass, Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist, baptismal regeneration, etc?

25. If Christianity is a “book religion,” how did it flourish during the first 1500 years of Church history when the vast majority of people were illiterate?

26. How could the Apostle Thomas establish the church in India that survives to this day (and is now in communion with the Catholic Church) without leaving them with one word of New Testament Scripture?

27. If sola Scriptura is so solid and biblically based, why has there never been a full treatise written in its defense since the phrase was coined in the Reformation?

28. If Jesus intended for Christianity to be exclusively a “religion of the book,” why did He wait 1400 years before showing somebody how to build a printing press?

29. If the early Church believed in sola Scriptura, why do the creeds of the early Church always say “we believe in the Holy Catholic Church,” and not “we believe in Holy Scripture”?

30. If the Bible is as clear as Martin Luther claimed, why was he the first one to interpret it the way he did and why was he frustrated at the end of his life that “there are now as many doctrines as there are heads”?

31. The time interval between the Resurrection and the establishment of the New Testament canon in AD 382 is roughly the same as the interval between the arrival of the Mayflower in America and the present day. Therefore, since the early Christians had no defined New Testament for almost four hundred years, how did they practice sola Scriptura?

32. If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of Christian truth, why does the Bible itself say that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15)?

33. Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20-23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?

34. If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism say to the world?

35. Hebrews 13:17 says, "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you." What is the expiration date of this verse? When did it become okay not only to disobey the Church's leaders, but to rebel against them and set up rival churches?

36. The Koran explicitly claims divine inspiration, but the New Testament books do not. How do you know that the New Testament books are nevertheless inspired, but the Koran is not?

37. How does a Protestant know for sure what God thinks about moral issues such as abortion, masturbation, contraceptives, eugenics, euthanasia, etc.?

38. What is one to believe when one Protestant says infants should be baptized (e.g., Luther and Calvin) and another says it is wrong and unbiblical (e.g., Baptists and Evangelicals)?

A Few Bonus Questions

Where does the Bible . . .

. . . say God created the world/universe out of nothing?

. . . say salvation is attainable through faith alone?

. . . tell us how we know that the revelation of Jesus Christ ended with the death of the last Apostle?

. . . provide a list of the canonical books of the Old Testament?

. . . provide a list of the canonical books of the New Testament?

. . . explain the doctrine of the Trinity, or even use the word “Trinity”?

. . . tell us the name of the “beloved disciple”?

. . . inform us of the names of the authors of the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John?

. . . who wrote the Book of Acts?

. . . tell us the Holy Spirit is one of the three Persons of the Trinity?

. . . .tell us Jesus Christ was both fully God and fully man from the moment of conception (e.g. how do we know His Divinity wasn't infused later in His life?) and/or tells us Jesus Christ is One Person with two complete natures, human and Divine and not some other combination of the two natures (i.e., one or both being less than complete)?

. . . that the church should, or someday would be divided into competing and disagreeing denominations?

. . . that Protestants can have an invisible unity when Jesus expected a visible unity to be seen by the world (see John 17)?

. . . tell us Jesus Christ is of the same substance of Divinity as God the Father?

[editor-surveyor]

You are using your standard deceptive posting technique.

Refusing to allow the truth to stand is very catholic!

[GeronL]

exactly

The apostles were not Catholic, they planted independent churches and told to look for scripture not some authority for answers.

[DungeonMaster]

At least they're no longer burning people at the stake for simple possession... right?

I don't think it was Catholics in Salem doing that though.

[CynicalBear]

Tell me something. Is the RCC built on the foundation of Peter and does it teach that?

[Elsie]

(I refuse to apologize for being Catholic, I was raised to think for myself.)

Are there any other examples of oxy-moronic taglines on FR?

[Elsie]

I’ll wait, too!

[editor-surveyor]

>> “I’ll wait, too!” <<

Indeed you will! :o)

[Iscool]

God told the Israelites constantly in the OT to WRITE things down.

It's amazing how many times the word 'wrote' is used in the NT...I don't know why tho, according to RCs nobody could read...(but aren't they cute when they're little)...

[Iscool]

It's an obvious ploy to bolster their claim that they needed to write things down themselves because nobody else was literate enough to do it but them, and therefore the whole world is obligated to the Roman church for having Scripture today, as if without them, Scripture wouldn't exist.

And speaking of the epitome' of hypocrisy, every one of their 'traditions' is written down...They just can't seem to remember the source of the traditions...

[Iscool]

Catholics are the original Christians. The rest of you are johnny come lately possers.

Not according to God in the bible...Catholics were however the first pago/religious/Romans...

Although you could be taken for Pharisees, they were all Jewish...It would be more likely that your religion started out unofficially with the Nicolaitians...

Several of the early church fathers, including Irenaeus, Hippolytus,[2] Epiphanius, and Theodoret mentioned this group, and stated that the deacon Nicolas was the author of the heresy and the sect.

So that's where St. Nick originated from...

The meaning of the name, "victors over the people" or "rulers over the world" suggests to some of these authors that the Nicolaitanes were among those who maintained that there must be a religious hierarchy to control the spiritual development of the common people; it is believed they were trying to set themselves up as priests in a two-class system – one that would give them absolute control over the laity (common people), who would be completely dependent upon them for all spiritual knowledge, guidance, and access to God.

http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/bible-study-q/6862-who-were-nicolaitians.html

[smvoice]

I’ve been thinking that the RCC’s board meeting before God is going to take a LONG time. But not really. He is just going to take one look at the volumes and VOLUMES of traditions, doctrines, edicts, councils, and “infallible” opinions, hold His hand up and say “ENOUGH, where may I find the gospel I gave you?”...”uh, uh, well Sir..uh, it’s not exactly something that can be written down so easily...you see, Sir, it combines Matthew, Mark, Luke and John with the early church father’s opi....’ “SILENCE..you’ve said enough..let me see if My Son ever knew you...”. Silence...and feet shuffling, and the blame game begins...Followed by the wailing and gnashing of what now? 2 BILLION souls?

[editor-surveyor]

The nicolaitans are still with us today.

Anyone that insists that a congregation has to be anything other than a loosely knit cooperative study and worship group without elevated leadership is a nicolaitan.

Yeshua says that he hates them.

[roamer_1]

It's an obvious ploy to bolster their claim that they needed to write things down themselves because nobody else was literate enough to do it but them, and therefore the whole world is obligated to the Roman church for having Scripture today, as if without them, Scripture wouldn't exist.

More than that, illiteracy reigned only within the jurisdiction of the Roman church - There was a high level of literacy in the caliphate of the muslims, and high literacy among the northern Celtic tribes. but Europe itself had run amok. Whether it is because of the fall of Rome, the black plague, the little ice age, or the imposition of the the Roman church system can be argued, I suppose, though you probably can understand where I think the culprit lies.

What a bunch of nonsense.

Absolutely.

God proved Himself perfectly capable of preserving His word when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found

Yes he did - and I think that the same thing will happen again wrt the NT...

[Iscool]

We’ll be there watching the fiasco...

[Iscool]

The nicolaitans are still with us today.

Rom_1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Could it be any more plain???

[Heart-Rest]

Heart-Rest:    "There are many things that are "right" and truthful, but which are not contained in scripture."

Iscool:    "Name one..."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

You are joking, aren't you Iscool?

In case you are really serious, here are a couple quick ones for you:

• Voting against Barack Hussein Obama.

• Working to overturn Obamacare.

[Heart-Rest]

"Yeshua held only the scriptures, as he would say 'it is written' before each and every answer when he was questioned."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

So then, for every example I can find in the Bible where Jesus was asked a question by someone, and He did NOT preface His answer with the phrase "It is written", would you pledge your sacred honor to give me $1,000?

For quick examples, how about these Bible "question" quotes:

- - - - - - -

John 18:33-38

33 Pilate entered the praetorium again and called Jesus, and said to him, “Are you the King of the Jews?”

34 Jesus answered, "“Do you say this of your own accord, or did others say it to you about me?”

35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have handed you over to me; what have you done?”

36 Jesus answered, “My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world.”

37 Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Every one who is of the truth hears my voice.”

38 Pilate said to him, “What is truth?”

- - - - - - -

John 19:10-11

10 Pilate therefore said to him, “You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have power to release you, and power to crucify you?”

11 Jesus answered him, ““You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.”

- - - - - - -

Do you want to back up that false claim you made with your sacred honor and some money?

[metmom]

Are there any other examples of oxy-moronic taglines on FR?

Certainly none that are a better example.

[metmom]

And speaking of the epitome' of hypocrisy, every one of their 'traditions' is written down...They just can't seem to remember the source of the traditions...

So I've noticed.

Seems like we've yet to get an answer on validating those traditions.

[Heart-Rest]

Heart-Rest:   "Now, unless you believe that when Jesus said and did all those other things which John 20:30-31 plainly says were NOT recorded in the scriptures, that somehow Jesus was saying and doing things which were NOT right, you can obviously see a clear example of why what you said in post #246 was completely untrue, that is, a completely grievous falsehood."

CynicalBear:   "What a preposterous statement. First of all because something that Jesus did was not recorded in scripture surely wouldn’t indicate that what He did was not right. It does stand to reason that if the Holy Spirit saw fit to not include it in scripture He chose not to reveal it to us for a reason. Second, perhaps you would like to prove to us something that Jesus did that wasn’t recorded in scripture. Perhaps Catholics have some provable source other than hearsay?"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

CynicalBear, that is exactly my point!

According to John 20:30-31, Jesus did lots of other things that were NOT recorded in the scriptures.

My guess would be that ALL Christians believe (on faith) that the things He said and did that were NOT recorded in the scriptures were, nevertheless, both right and truthful.

That is directly contrary to your false claim in your post #246 that "Only scripture is right".

Those things Jesus did that were NOT recorded in scripture were right too, so your claim that "Only scripture is right" is obviously false.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Your second claim is shown here:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Second, perhaps you would like to prove to us something that Jesus did that wasn’t recorded in scripture. Perhaps Catholics have some provable source other than hearsay?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Nobody knows what those other things were, we only know that Jesus DID other things, based on the testimony of St. John in his gospel at John 20:30-31.

We don't know what things Jesus did that were not recorded in the Bible, we only know that He did those things, based on our faith and our confidence in the veracity of St. John's words in his gospel.

We take it on faith that those things WERE most certainly "right", even though they were NOT recorded in scripture, and we do not know what those other thing He did were.

That proves that some other things NOT recorded in scripture are right too, contrary to your false statement that "Only scripture is right".