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Questions for "Bible Christians" that they can't answer - Part 2
Catholic Convert ^ | October 27, 2013 | David Palm and Steve Ray

Posted on 10/27/2013 5:25:55 AM PDT by NYer

There are 38 questions + a few bonus questions. I have split them into two separate posts of 20 and 18 + bonus questions. In case you missed it, here is the link to Part 1. Are you ready?

21. Who in the Church had the authority to determine which books belonged in the New Testament canon and to make this decision binding on all Christians? If nobody has this authority, then can I remove or add books to the canon on my own authority?

22. Why do Protestant scholars recognize the early Church councils at Hippo and Carthage as the first instances in which the New Testament canon was officially ratified, but ignore the fact that those same councils ratified the Old Testament canon used by the Catholic Church today but abandoned by Protestants at the Reformation?

23. Why do Protestants follow postapostolic Jewish decisions on the boundaries of the Old Testament canon, rather than the decision of the Church founded by Jesus Christ?

24. How were the bishops at Hippo and Carthage able to determine the correct canon of Scripture, in spite of the fact that they believed all the distinctively Catholic doctrines such as the apostolic succession of bishops, the sacrifice of the Mass, Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist, baptismal regeneration, etc?

25. If Christianity is a “book religion,” how did it flourish during the first 1500 years of Church history when the vast majority of people were illiterate?

26. How could the Apostle Thomas establish the church in India that survives to this day (and is now in communion with the Catholic Church) without leaving them with one word of New Testament Scripture?

27. If sola Scriptura is so solid and biblically based, why has there never been a full treatise written in its defense since the phrase was coined in the Reformation?

28. If Jesus intended for Christianity to be exclusively a “religion of the book,” why did He wait 1400 years before showing somebody how to build a printing press?

29. If the early Church believed in sola Scriptura, why do the creeds of the early Church always say “we believe in the Holy Catholic Church,” and not “we believe in Holy Scripture”?

30. If the Bible is as clear as Martin Luther claimed, why was he the first one to interpret it the way he did and why was he frustrated at the end of his life that “there are now as many doctrines as there are heads”?

31. The time interval between the Resurrection and the establishment of the New Testament canon in AD 382 is roughly the same as the interval between the arrival of the Mayflower in America and the present day. Therefore, since the early Christians had no defined New Testament for almost four hundred years, how did they practice sola Scriptura?

32. If the Bible is the only foundation and basis of Christian truth, why does the Bible itself say that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim. 3:15)?

33. Jesus said that the unity of Christians would be objective evidence to the world that He had been sent by God (John 17:20-23). How can the world see an invisible "unity" that exists only in the hearts of believers?

34. If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism say to the world?

35. Hebrews 13:17 says, "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you." What is the expiration date of this verse? When did it become okay not only to disobey the Church's leaders, but to rebel against them and set up rival churches?

36. The Koran explicitly claims divine inspiration, but the New Testament books do not. How do you know that the New Testament books are nevertheless inspired, but the Koran is not?

37. How does a Protestant know for sure what God thinks about moral issues such as abortion, masturbation, contraceptives, eugenics, euthanasia, etc.?

38. What is one to believe when one Protestant says infants should be baptized (e.g., Luther and Calvin) and another says it is wrong and unbiblical (e.g., Baptists and Evangelicals)?

A Few Bonus Questions

Where does the Bible . . .

. . . say God created the world/universe out of nothing?

. . . say salvation is attainable through faith alone?

. . . tell us how we know that the revelation of Jesus Christ ended with the death of the last Apostle?

. . . provide a list of the canonical books of the Old Testament?

. . . provide a list of the canonical books of the New Testament?

. . . explain the doctrine of the Trinity, or even use the word “Trinity”?

. . . tell us the name of the “beloved disciple”?

. . . inform us of the names of the authors of the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John?

. . . who wrote the Book of Acts?

. . . tell us the Holy Spirit is one of the three Persons of the Trinity?

. . . .tell us Jesus Christ was both fully God and fully man from the moment of conception (e.g. how do we know His Divinity wasn't infused later in His life?) and/or tells us Jesus Christ is One Person with two complete natures, human and Divine and not some other combination of the two natures (i.e., one or both being less than complete)?

. . . that the church should, or someday would be divided into competing and disagreeing denominations?

. . . that Protestants can have an invisible unity when Jesus expected a visible unity to be seen by the world (see John 17)?

. . . tell us Jesus Christ is of the same substance of Divinity as God the Father?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: antiprotestantrant; bible; biblequestions; christians; faith; romancatholicism; scripture; sectarianturmoil
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To: verga
I think you're spouting hooey.

For a book that has supposed to be debunked, its still highly regarded.

101 posted on 10/27/2013 10:50:35 AM PDT by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: verga
Seems what you are saying is almost opposite what Christ says

"He humbled you and let you be hungry, and fed you with manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you understand that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the LORD.

102 posted on 10/27/2013 11:01:39 AM PDT by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: mountn man; verga

http://www.catholicfidelity.com/apologetics-topics/anti-catholicism/foxs-acts-and-monuments-by-richard-clarke-doc/


103 posted on 10/27/2013 11:06:32 AM PDT by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: Vigilanteman; BeadCounter; GreyFriar; metmom; Salvation; markomalley; Heart-Rest
Why was the state established church at the time so intent on keeping the Bible inaccessible to the masses that they actually burned people at the stake for actually having it translated and printed into the vernacular language?

You have been mislead by someone or some organization. Let's review some facts .

The original writings from the Apostles themselves (the autographs) no longer exist. This is due partly to the perishable material (papyrus) used by the writers, and partly to the fact that the Roman emperors decreed the destruction of the sacred books of the Christians (Edict of Diocletian, A.D. 303).

Before translating the Bible into Latin, St. Jerome (4th century) had already translated into more common languages enough books to fill a library. (Saint Jerome, Maisie Ward, Sheed & Ward; A Companion to Scripture Studies, Steinmuller.)

Between the years 390 and 406 he translated the Old Testament directly from the Hebrew, and this completed work is known today as the "Old Latin Vulgate". The work had been requested by Pope Damasus, and Copies of St. Jerome's Latin Vulgate appeared uncorrupted as late as the 11th century, with some revisions by St. Peter Damian and Lanfranc. (Catholic Encyclopedia, "Place of the Bible in the Church", C.U.A.)

The Council of Carthage (397) was the first Council to publish a list of all the inspired books of the Bible. The Council of Florence repeated the canon of the Bible, and it was restated at the Council of Trent.

Versions of the whole or parts of the Bible in the language of the common people first appeared in Germany in the eighth century, in France and Hungary in the twelfth, and Italy, Spain, Holland, Poland and Bohemia in the thirteenth century.

In the 1500's in Italy, there were more than 40 vernacular editions of the Bible. France had 18 vernacular editions before 1547, and Spain began publishing editions in 1478, with full approval of the Spanish Inquisition. In all, 198 editions of the Bible were in the language of the laity, 626 editions all together, and all before the first Protestant version, and all having the full approval of the Church. (Where We Got the Bible, TAN Publishers)

For centuries before the invention of printing, the only way to duplicate the text of the Bible was to copy it by hand. Copyists could have made mistakes, but, they took more care with Scripture than with any other book.

The division of Bible chapters into numbered smaller sections was introduced to facilitate scholarly reference to the individual passages. In 1528, Santes Pagnino, a Dominican, published a Bible where each chapter was divided into verses usually consisting of single sentences.

Robert Estienne, a French printer, less than thirty years later, introduced the figures that divide or "chop up" verses of the Bible. His verse divisions became standard because he also printed a Concordance based on these editions.

In 1452, the Vulgate was the first book to be printed on the first mechanical press, invented by a Catholic - Johann Gutenberg; that particular edition is commonly known as the Gutenberg Bible. Again, the text was in Latin. (The Gutenberg Bible, Martin Davies.)
Source


As for those "burned at the stake", Modern historians have long known that the popular view of the Inquisition is a myth. The Inquisition was actually an attempt by the Catholic Church to stop unjust executions.

Heresy was a capital offense against the state. It was considered a type of treason. Rulers of the state, whose authority was believed to come from God, had no patience for heretics. Neither did common people, who saw heretics as dangerous outsiders who would bring down divine wrath.

When someone was accused of heresy in the early Middle Ages, they were brought to the local lord for judgment, just as if they had stolen a pig. It was not easy to discern whether the accused was really a heretic. The lord needed some basic theological training, very few did. The sad result is that uncounted thousands across Europe were executed by secular authorities without fair trials or a competent judge of the crime.

The Catholic Church's response to this problem was the Inquisition, an attempt to provide fair trials for accused heretics using laws of evidence and presided over by knowledgeable judges.

From the perspective of secular authorities, heretics were traitors to God and the king and therefore deserved death. From the perspective of the Church, however, heretics were lost sheep who had strayed from the flock. As shepherds, the pope and bishops had a duty to bring them back into the fold, just as the Good Shepherd had commanded them. So, while medieval secular leaders were trying to safeguard their kingdoms, the Church was trying to save souls. The Inquisition provided a means for heretics to escape death and return to the community.

Most people tried for heresy by the Inquisition were either acquitted or had their sentences suspended. Those found guilty of grave error were allowed to confess their sin, do penance, and be restored to the Body of Christ. The underlying assumption of the Inquisition was that, like lost sheep, heretics had simply strayed.

If, however, an inquisitor determined that a particular sheep had purposely left the flock, there was nothing more that could be done. Unrepentant or obstinate heretics were excommunicated and given over to secular authorities with pleas for mercy that were frequently ignored. Despite popular myth, the Inquisition did not burn heretics. It was the secular authorities that held heresy to be a capital offense, not the Church. The simple fact is that the medieval Inquisition saved uncounted thousands of innocent (and even not-so-innocent) people who would otherwise have been roasted by secular lords or mob rule.

The Spanish Inquisition was a civil (not religious) tribunal established in 1480 by Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile to replace the kinder and gentler Inquisition which was under the control of the Catholic Church.
Source


Vigilanteman, you have made this statement on previous threads. I hope the information provided puts an end to that discussion.

104 posted on 10/27/2013 11:10:26 AM PDT by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: CynicalBear

I would love to get in on this conversation, but I’m still searching the Scriptures to find where Mary was bodily assumed, where she was sinless, and where she holds the grace necessary for our salvation...


105 posted on 10/27/2013 11:19:52 AM PDT by smvoice (HELP! I'm trapped inside this body and I can't get out!)
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To: NYer

The bible hating continues.


106 posted on 10/27/2013 11:22:28 AM PDT by DungeonMaster
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To: mountn man

How do you assume Christ wanted/ started a church?

_________________________________

No assumption is needed. Christ Himself stated that ... “...upon this rock I will build My Church.” (Matthew 16)


107 posted on 10/27/2013 11:22:38 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: SumProVita

Really??? Might want to reread the whole thing. He NEVER called Peter “Rock”.


108 posted on 10/27/2013 11:28:39 AM PDT by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: CynicalBear

Sacred Scripture was in no way discredited. ;-o


109 posted on 10/27/2013 11:29:33 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: ronnietherocket3
Your answer to a reasonable question is insult?

No, my answer to a blasphemous question was an insult.

It is phrased in the same tone as asking "If Jesus is truly deity, why did He not save Himself on the cross?" That Gutenberg did not invent the printing press until the Middle Ages in no way invalidates the authority of the Holy Scriptures which is what all these questions are attempting to do.

So is the next exercise 40 questions about the meaning of "is"?

110 posted on 10/27/2013 11:30:06 AM PDT by OrangeHoof (Howdy to all you government agents spying on me.)
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To: SumProVita
Secondly, the person I was responding to started off that " Correct, again this shows Christ founded a Church not a Book",

attacking the value of the Bible

111 posted on 10/27/2013 11:33:11 AM PDT by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: mountn man

What historical, primary source would that *information* be from?


112 posted on 10/27/2013 11:33:32 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: theoldmarine

Not considered an historical source...let alone accurate.


113 posted on 10/27/2013 11:35:55 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: Viennacon

Your response gives the idea that God no longer guides us in making moral decisions. How can that be?


114 posted on 10/27/2013 11:40:44 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: Viennacon

Which ones...and why?


115 posted on 10/27/2013 11:41:38 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: NYer
36. The Koran explicitly claims divine inspiration, but the New Testament books do not. How do you know that the New Testament books are nevertheless inspired, but the Koran is not?

There is only one way a person could know that...And that is by reading and believing the bible...

And since you make it clear that you do neither, the question then is directed at you and all other Catholics...And sadly, you can't answer that question with any authority...

And that's apparently why you have the rest of these goofy questions...No bible knowledge...No spiritual enlightenment...

116 posted on 10/27/2013 11:45:01 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: ronnietherocket3

What reasoning process led you to this conclusion? What does the entire Bible have to say with regard to the unborn? Doesn’t God create all humans in His image and likeness?


117 posted on 10/27/2013 11:45:38 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: BeadCounter
“Where does the Bible provide a list of Canonical Books of the Old Testament”

The fact that we have the bible is the testament of itself...God said he would preserve his words and he did...

I have far more faith in the words of God than I do some pagan religion that wants us to believe that God, in spite of his promise, did not preserve his words...

Get thee behind me, Satan...

118 posted on 10/27/2013 11:52:17 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Salvation
No, it is a serious sin to do so.

But yet your religion did it...

119 posted on 10/27/2013 11:55:50 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: mountn man

What does Peter have to do with your question? Your question was about how one could know that Christ wanted or started a CHURCH.


120 posted on 10/27/2013 11:56:14 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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