Posted on 09/17/2013 8:25:21 PM PDT by jodyel
"Unless You Eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and Drink His Blood You Have No Life In You"
Are these words of Jesus from John 6:53 to be taken literally or figuratively? The Roman Catholic Church teaches the context of John chapter six and the above headlined verse 53 are literal. Thus Jesus is giving absolute and unconditional requirements for eternal life. In fact, this literal interpretation forms the foundation for Rome's doctrine of transubstantiation -- the miraculous changing of bread and wine into the living Christ, His body and blood, soul and divinity. Each Catholic priest is said to have the power to call Jesus down from the right hand of the Father when he elevates the wafer and whispers the words "Hoc corpus meus est." Catholics believe as they consume the lifeless wafer they are actually eating and drinking the living body and blood of Jesus Christ. This is a vital and important step in their salvation and a doctrine they must believe and accept to become a Catholic.
If priests indeed have the exclusive power to change finite bread and wine into the body and blood of the infinite Christ, and if indeed consuming His body and blood is necessary for salvation, then the whole world must become Catholic to escape the wrath of God. On the other hand, if Jesus was speaking in figurative language then this teaching becomes the most blasphemous and deceptive hoax any religion could impose on its people. There is no middle ground. Therefore the question of utmost importance is -- Was the message Jesus conveyed to the Jewish multitude to be understood as literal or figurative? Rome has never presented a good argument for defending its literal interpretation. Yet there are at least seven convincing reasons why this passage must be taken figuratively.
Counterfeit Miracle
There is no Biblical precedent where something supernatural occurred where the outward evidence indicated no miracle had taken place. (The wafer and wine look, taste and feel the same before and after the supposed miracle of transubstantion). When Jesus changed water into wine, all the elements of water changed into the actual elements of wine.
Drinking Blood Forbidden
The Law of Moses strictly forbade Jews from drinking blood (Leviticus 17:10-14) A literal interpretation would have Jesus teaching the Jews to disobey the Mosaic Law. This would have been enough cause to persecute Jesus. (See John 5:16)
Biblical Disharmony
When John 6:53 is interpreted literally it is in disharmony with the rest of the Bible. "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you," gives no hope of eternal life to any Christian who has not consumed the literal body and blood of Christ. It opposes hundreds of Scriptures that declare justification and salvation are by faith alone in Christ.
Produces Dilemma
It appears that the "eating and drinking" in verse 6:54 and the "believing" in verse 6:40 produce the same result - eternal life. If both are literal we have a dilemma. What if a person "believes" but does not "eat or drink"? Or what if a person "eats and drinks" but does not "believe?" This could happen any time a non-believer walked into a Catholic Church and received the Eucharist. Does this person have eternal life because he met one of the requirements but not the other? The only possible way to harmonize these two verses is to accept one verse as figurative and one as literal.
Figurative In Old Testament
The Jews were familiar with "eating and drinking" being used figuratively in the Old Testament to describe the appropriation of divine blessings to one's innermost being. It was God's way of providing spiritual nourishment for the soul. (See Jeremiah 15:16; Isaiah 55:1-3; and Ezekiel 2:8, 3:1)
Jesus Confirmed
Jesus informed His disciples there were times when He spoke figuratively (John 16:25) and often used that type of language to describe Himself. The Gospel of John records seven figurative declarations Jesus made of Himself -- "the bread of life" (6:48), "the light of the world" (8:12), "the door" (10:9), "the good shepherd" (10:11), "the resurrection and the life" (11:25), "the way, the truth and the life" (14:6), and "the true vine" (15:1). He also referred to His body as the temple (2:19).
Words Were Spiritual
Jesus ended this teaching by revealing "the words I have spoken to you are spirit" (6:63). As with each of the seven miracles in John's Gospel, Jesus uses the miracle to convey a spiritual truth. Here Jesus has just multiplied the loaves and fish and uses a human analogy to teach the necessity of spiritual nourishment. This is consistent with His teaching on how we are to worship God. "God is Spirit and His worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). As we worship Christ He is present spiritually, not physically. In fact, Jesus can only be bodily present at one place at one time. His omnipresence refers only to His spirit. It is impossible for Christ to be bodily present in thousands of Catholic Churches around the world.
When Jesus is received spiritually, one time in the heart, there is no need to receive him physically,
I said to pick up a bucket of WINGS on your way home!
“It is impossible for Christ to be bodily present in thousands of Catholic Churches around the world.
you have to be kidding....God can create the universe and He can”t be present in more than one place at a time.........think about what you said.”
First of all, I didn’t write that to which you responded.
Secondly, the person who did write that wrote the word “bodily.” You didn’t respond to that which you quoted, but chose to ignore the word “bodily” and replied with the doctrine of “omnipresence”, which is a view of the nature of God over which no orthodox Christian would disagree.
I imagine the same way that ALL women are virgins; until...
SORRY!
I left off the Catholic Head Exploding alert!
SURE He does...
It IS tragic that Satan, working in part through the foolishness of Catholicism, has deceived a majority of Catholics in that fashion.
It keeps THEM from roaming the street; so it ought to do the same for PROTESTants.
>> “And, as one might expect, you completely failed to understand the plain meaning of those words.” <<
.
Your haughty, arrogant personal attack shows that it is your understanding that is undeveloped.
We will be ‘born again’ into our new bodies at the Last Trump at Yom Teruah, at the First Resurrection.
Yeshua made it sufficiently clear that we need our new body to enter the kingdom, thus we must be born again.
I hear ya!
Give ME FULL malice any day!
“read your bible, look at it, touch it, memorize it.......where do you think it came from...”
God can use an ass to speak to us, but that doesn’t mean the ass is saved.
Having noted so, there are many Protestants who are going to be shocked at the number of Roman Catholics they see in heaven...if those same self-righteous Protestants even get there.
IOW, the character of Christ being formed in us.
Well, even if you really don't know, history tells us.
It's called the *Inquisition*.
Luther had no choice about leaving the Catholic church. They ex-communicated him.
Thank you for sharing your insights, dear sister in Christ!
“That is what the Lords Supper, or communion, is all about. To remember that Christ died for our sins.”
Actually, most Christians do not know the symbolism behind the cup from which Christ told His disciples to drink anyway. Research the Jewish betrothal ritual. You will find the symbolic meaning behind the cup at the Last Supper in that.
The bread and wine date to before there even were Jews.
It is the blessing that the MelekZedek bestowed upon Abraham. That is what is meant when it says the “he blessed it...”
“Blessed be Yehova Elohim, King of the Universe, who brings forth bread and wine from the Earth.”
The bread and wine date to before there even were Jews.
It is the blessing that the MelekZedek bestowed upon Abraham. That is what is meant when it says the “he blessed it...”
“Blessed be Yehova Elohim, King of the Universe, who brings forth bread and wine from the Earth.”
Yes, but the significance of what Christ was asking them to do by taking the cup is reflected in the Jewish rite of betrothal, when the groom sets a cup before his bride, fills it with wine, and asks her to drink from it. If she does, they are betrothed to be joined in marriage. If she refuses the cup, they are not.
This motif is repeated throughout the New Testament in Paul’s letters as well as Revelation.
Be careful that you not cause one too loose faith who is where GOD called them to be. If the Holy Spirit lead you to be Baptist, Charismatic, Catholic, whatever then it is wise to obey. If The Holy Spirit calls one to leave one church and go elsewhere it is also wise to obey. What is not wise is to destroy even what little faith someone else may have and cause them to fall.
The Protestant vs Catholic family feud is a waste of time. It gets even more ridiculous when even same denominations try and persuade a member of their own denomination to leave the church they are at and come to theirs as it is somehow better.
Luke ch9 49John said to Jesus, “Master, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons. We tried to stop him because he isn’t in our group.” 50But Jesus said, “Don’t stop him! Anyone who is not against you is for you.”
Mark Ch 9 38John said to Jesus, “Teacher, we saw a man using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he isn’t one of our group.” 39“Don’t stop him!” Jesus said. “No one who performs miracles in my name will soon be able to speak evil of me. 40Anyone who is not against us is for us. 41If anyone gives you even a cup of water because you belong to the Messiah, I assure you, that person will be rewarded.
“Wow, well aren’t you just the smartest boy in the class?!”
You should try to keep your insecurities out of theological discussions.
“No believer would speak like that to a fellow believer.”
Nonsense. The first two Spiritual Works of Mercy are admonishing the sinner and instructing the ignorant.
“There is the Catholic arrogance”
There is that insecurity again. One thing, at least, you’ve made clear. You don’t hate the Church because of theological differences. You hate her because you feel small and ignorant when you allow yourself to contemplate her glory as the supernatural bride of Christ.
“You just gave away what you truly are, dsc....a Catholic snob.”
The term “Catholic snob” is an oxymoron. What I am is an intellectual snob, and that snobbery is in direct opposition to Catholicism, which calls us to humility.
Though I am, lamentably, still something of an intellectual snob, I do not look down upon the stupid. I look down upon the willfully ignorant, whose ignorance allows them to think themselves wise.
“It takes absolutely no sophistication or great intellect at all to understand the simple message of the Gospel...even a little child can understand.”
A child can understand on a child’s level, but an adult can understand on an adult’s plane: a deeper, more sophisticated understanding. Some few, those in whom is combined intelligence, wisdom, scholarship, and holiness, can understand on levels utterly inaccessible to their inferiors. Saints Alphonsus Liguori, Thomas Aquinas, and Augustine leap to mind.
The rest of us can only read their works and follow them in understanding as far as is given to us.
Many Protestants—not all—make a fetish of insisting that a child’s understanding is the only understanding. They have to, really, because there would otherwise be no excuse for failing to seek, or at least to desire, a more mature understanding.
“Seems that is the kind of thing the Pharisees might have said”
Uh, yeah, you need to look more deeply into Our Lord’s criticisms of Pharisees.
“I stand by what I said before...no true believer stays in a Catholic church once born again.”
And you wag your finger at others and call them arrogant. Astounding.
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