Posted on 09/17/2013 8:25:21 PM PDT by jodyel
"Unless You Eat the Flesh of the Son of Man and Drink His Blood You Have No Life In You"
Are these words of Jesus from John 6:53 to be taken literally or figuratively? The Roman Catholic Church teaches the context of John chapter six and the above headlined verse 53 are literal. Thus Jesus is giving absolute and unconditional requirements for eternal life. In fact, this literal interpretation forms the foundation for Rome's doctrine of transubstantiation -- the miraculous changing of bread and wine into the living Christ, His body and blood, soul and divinity. Each Catholic priest is said to have the power to call Jesus down from the right hand of the Father when he elevates the wafer and whispers the words "Hoc corpus meus est." Catholics believe as they consume the lifeless wafer they are actually eating and drinking the living body and blood of Jesus Christ. This is a vital and important step in their salvation and a doctrine they must believe and accept to become a Catholic.
If priests indeed have the exclusive power to change finite bread and wine into the body and blood of the infinite Christ, and if indeed consuming His body and blood is necessary for salvation, then the whole world must become Catholic to escape the wrath of God. On the other hand, if Jesus was speaking in figurative language then this teaching becomes the most blasphemous and deceptive hoax any religion could impose on its people. There is no middle ground. Therefore the question of utmost importance is -- Was the message Jesus conveyed to the Jewish multitude to be understood as literal or figurative? Rome has never presented a good argument for defending its literal interpretation. Yet there are at least seven convincing reasons why this passage must be taken figuratively.
Counterfeit Miracle
There is no Biblical precedent where something supernatural occurred where the outward evidence indicated no miracle had taken place. (The wafer and wine look, taste and feel the same before and after the supposed miracle of transubstantion). When Jesus changed water into wine, all the elements of water changed into the actual elements of wine.
Drinking Blood Forbidden
The Law of Moses strictly forbade Jews from drinking blood (Leviticus 17:10-14) A literal interpretation would have Jesus teaching the Jews to disobey the Mosaic Law. This would have been enough cause to persecute Jesus. (See John 5:16)
Biblical Disharmony
When John 6:53 is interpreted literally it is in disharmony with the rest of the Bible. "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you," gives no hope of eternal life to any Christian who has not consumed the literal body and blood of Christ. It opposes hundreds of Scriptures that declare justification and salvation are by faith alone in Christ.
Produces Dilemma
It appears that the "eating and drinking" in verse 6:54 and the "believing" in verse 6:40 produce the same result - eternal life. If both are literal we have a dilemma. What if a person "believes" but does not "eat or drink"? Or what if a person "eats and drinks" but does not "believe?" This could happen any time a non-believer walked into a Catholic Church and received the Eucharist. Does this person have eternal life because he met one of the requirements but not the other? The only possible way to harmonize these two verses is to accept one verse as figurative and one as literal.
Figurative In Old Testament
The Jews were familiar with "eating and drinking" being used figuratively in the Old Testament to describe the appropriation of divine blessings to one's innermost being. It was God's way of providing spiritual nourishment for the soul. (See Jeremiah 15:16; Isaiah 55:1-3; and Ezekiel 2:8, 3:1)
Jesus Confirmed
Jesus informed His disciples there were times when He spoke figuratively (John 16:25) and often used that type of language to describe Himself. The Gospel of John records seven figurative declarations Jesus made of Himself -- "the bread of life" (6:48), "the light of the world" (8:12), "the door" (10:9), "the good shepherd" (10:11), "the resurrection and the life" (11:25), "the way, the truth and the life" (14:6), and "the true vine" (15:1). He also referred to His body as the temple (2:19).
Words Were Spiritual
Jesus ended this teaching by revealing "the words I have spoken to you are spirit" (6:63). As with each of the seven miracles in John's Gospel, Jesus uses the miracle to convey a spiritual truth. Here Jesus has just multiplied the loaves and fish and uses a human analogy to teach the necessity of spiritual nourishment. This is consistent with His teaching on how we are to worship God. "God is Spirit and His worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). As we worship Christ He is present spiritually, not physically. In fact, Jesus can only be bodily present at one place at one time. His omnipresence refers only to His spirit. It is impossible for Christ to be bodily present in thousands of Catholic Churches around the world.
When Jesus is received spiritually, one time in the heart, there is no need to receive him physically,
Thanks, Alamo-Girl.
What are they still doing in the Catholic church is they are born again?
No, they are not....but I cannot expect you to understand.
Perhaps you will watch this great vid of the former priest and nun who really know what it is to be born again.
Bet you won’t though.
You just like to be nasty and snarky.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOR3JuQuvqo
After this comment, I will just ignore you. You are so entrenched Chrsit Himself couldn’t reason with you.
Thanks Alamo-Girl, for your support.
Leave the thread and don’t reply if you don’t want to discuss it.
Catholics are famous or should I say infamous for making scripture say what they want it to say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOR3JuQuvqo
Gonna have to look for it especially now.
Reading them all backwards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfLF1fbLhfg
This lovely young lady in this vid lost a lot of her family when she was born again. Same with Mormons. Afraid to lose the group, the friends, the family.
That is very sad, colt. You might pray that God convict him right up until the moment he leaves this earth.
I am incredibly fortunate that my family has a history of following Christ and none but. Very thankful for my grandmother who was instrumental in my faith....and her name was Lois.
Here is a neat video I watched earlier. Would love to hang out with this lady. She married a rancher in Del Rio, TX. Not sure how far that is from the Dallas area but I might have to take a road trip and meet her someday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOR3JuQuvqo
Did someone else already answer this for you?
Good for you, notary.
Go your way.
How do you know they are born again, snipe?
Many say they are Christian but are not born again.
Here is a great testimony. Think I would love to know this woman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOR3JuQuvqo
How do we know for certain anyone is and that answer is not specific to any church.
Many say they are Christian but are not born again.
Hum, because they don't do such things as speak in tongues, no spiritual gift manifestation {charismatic} or because something like the preacher didn't baptize them saying in the name of Jesus Christ?
By GOD's Grace through Christ with Faith we are saved and thus Born Again. The contrite heart and acceptance of Jesus Christ allows us to be born again. The moment that happens the very second we surrender to Christ and ask His forgiveness we are born again and our soul Baptized in His Blood. The person may show no outward or even at that time feel any inward emotion. That for some comes later.
Churches make salvation so complicated yet Christ made it so a child could come to Him. A child does not have to know Latin, even know The Bible for that matter when salvation comes.
I was hounded once for about two years by a Charismatic Zealot who insisted I was not born again, saved, etc simply because the preacher did not specifically say "In the name of Jesus Christ". My faith at that time in my life and my knowledge had not matured. Yet I was still saved. The knowledge and growth would come about seven years later in GOD's appointed time in my life.
I don't believe being a Catholic makes anyone lost or saved anymore than I would believe being a Protestant from any sect makes one lost or saved. It's not about the church. It's not the name of the church or the church that brings one salvation. They are buildings for groupps or people to worship. It is whether the individuals within them or elsewhere for that matter accept or reject Jesus Christ. I believe all churches every songle one known to man are in some way imperfect in doctrine but the believers though they err in dogma, doctrine, or theological issues are saved by Grace.
All sin can be forgiven except the persons final rejection of Jesus Christ. That is a persons harden heart where they ignore or reject The Holy Spirits conviction and call of salvation to where their heart is hardened toward GOD.
By their fruits. But their fruits do not save them rather it is a manifestation.
Matthew 15:16
"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
He is!
He honestly believes his Church will not lead him astray!
I wonder who led them BAD POPES astray???
I wonder who led the white/black smoke guys astray to ELECT them BAD POPES in the first place?
The Roman Catholic Church doesn't think MORMONs are christian; but at LEAST the name of JESUS is found on each of their buildings!!
Search thru the following to find the name of Jesus...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_churches_in_the_United_States
That's enough to make a fellow tired...
Matthew 11:28-30
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhzG9aeOn9w
I have read the BIBLE...
maybe by being, an A student baby, you can bring HIS love to you...
I still have to get back to you, elsie, on that one point of sleep...soul sleep. I believe that was what you meant.
Don’t let me forget about it because I will. I am really bad at remembering things.
What are their fruits?
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