Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
Posted on 08/27/2013 11:53:37 AM PDT by NYer
Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.
Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.
When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:
Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.
I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:
I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”
This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”
“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”
I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.
This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.
So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?
If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.
Godspeed,
Taylor
PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.
PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!
Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people
Uh...
That looks GERMAN to me!
But, nut...
I thought they wuz in HEAVEN?!
What's this raisin' up stuff?
The word CATHOLIC is nowhere to be found in Scripture. Nowhere. Go check.
Therefore they don't exist.
I shudder to think of the results of the wrath of God against those who support abortion.
"The entire passage is talking about His flesh. I would suggest you do some re study in the Old Testament about “eating the word”."
The passage is about "His" flesh,and about the incomprehension of His listeners on account of "the" flesh.
When He means "Himself", He says "My Flesh." ("My Flesh is food indeed.") When He means their stubborn, unconverted attitude, He says "the" flesh. He would never say His flesh profiteth nothing. He is the Word Made Flesh.
The "Word was made Flesh and dwelt among us""--- Mary said, "Be it done unto me according to your Word." She accepted the Word spiritually into her heart. But she also accepted the physical conception of the Lord Jesus in her womb. The spiritual and the physical acceptance of His flesh go together.
When Jesus says "This is My Body," it's wrong to allow the "fleshly" mind to quibble or argue, or object "Whoa, Now just a minute here, what do you mean by that?" --- or to offer any response other than "Amen."
Just "Amen."
Why do we have to figure it out? Isn't it something beyond our comprehension? I can't think of any adequate response other than "Amen."
BTW I'm out of here for an evening class. May catch up with you tomorrow.
They ain’t an any bigger sinner than me.
Now GRANTED my REWARDS might be a bit slimmer than they could have been; but HE reached down and got me in my sin, and by gum; HE can do the same for them.
There ya go with that wisdom of man again.
As evidenced by those who have already accepted Christ and are now denouncing abortion. I suppose I should have clarified and said those who persist.
Sorry mrs. don-o but Jesus never commanded or taught us to be on speaking terms with His mother. Now His Father is another story....
That is an interesting thought. Really.
It raises the question of why we do ask others to pray for us. It's like we really don't think that God will answer our prayers Himself, like He promised.
I know I struggled with that for years; thinking that God will answer the prayers of others instead of mine, before mine, whatever. I prayed out of obedience, but not in faith that God would come through like He said He would when it was just me praying. I guess I thought that he didn't consider me significant enough, or good enough, or whatever enough to be worth paying attention to as an individual. Part of the group, yeah, but just me. Not so much.
I've come to realize what a slap in the face of God that is.
I will post Scripture in another post so as not to make this one too long.
We address the Angels and Archangels and ask them to join us in praise in all Masses. I am realizing it would be hard to get an antiseptically isolated prayer here, even for experimental purposes.
But why go to them instead of God? Do you think God will listen better to someone else? Or the more the merrier? You do realize that time you spend praying to someone else is time not spent praying to God, don't you?
How do you get to know your best friend? BY spending time with her, or her mother, her husband, her children, her other friends? Maybe you can learn more ABOUT her, but you don't get to know her through the intimacy taht being with her and speaking with her , and spending time with her alone will do.
Some time ago, I was praying for a job for my son. I was thinking of asking a friend to pray also and as I was talking to God about it, He said, *No! Do not ask so and so.* I was really taken aback. He continued and told me that He wanted me to know that HE would answer MY prayers Himself.
So I did. And He did. I didn't tell another soul or ask anyone else to pray for it. But what a boost to my faith that was.
Do you think those in heaven aren't already aware of the abortion issue (presuming they know what's going on down here anyway) and if they are praying for us, do you think that they aren't already praying for the abortion issue?
The best thing that's happened to me in the last couple years is getting out of the churchianity box. Challenging the assumptions I was making and taking chances I would not have taken before.
When we stretch ourselves, God will meet us. When we are at the end of ourselves, it's the beginning of seeing the awesome and amazing things God can do.
I've come to love asking God for the impossible, or even the possible and letting HIM decide how to do it. It's often the answer that would NEVER have occurred to me.
For a month? Yeesh.
Yeah, for a month. I dare you.
Great post metmom!
“Father, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread, and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.”
And he said to them, “Which of you who has a friend will go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves, for a friend of mine has arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; and he will answer from within, ‘Do not bother me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up and give you anything’? I tell you, though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his impudence he will rise and give him whatever he needs.
And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
Luke 18:1-8 And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Give me justice against my adversary.’ For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor respect man, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.’”
And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge says. And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
John 14:12-14 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
James 5:13-18 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore its fruit.
1 John 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
Hebrews 4:14-16 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
God has promised that if we pray according to His will, He hears us. Now some things we might not be sure what His will is.
But others we can be sure. I feel pretty confident that it would be praying according to God's will to shut down the baby murder business.
Therefore, I can know that when I pray for that to happen, I am praying according to God's will and that He WILL hear and answer that prayer. Even if it's only me who does it.
Elijah thought he was alone until god told him that He had a remnant. And God heard and answered Elijah's prayer.
What other God Breathed source do you say defines doctrine and what we need for salvation?
Yes, Dave. If you are a believer on Christ for personal salvation, and if so am I, then we are in a single church, the church of all believers. We are still faced with questions of details of administration, but not of belonging. I think the Crazy Evangelical vs. Traditional Roman Catholic differences are well known. I accept Crazy Evangelical to the point where it begins to verge into glorification of man... at which point I holler WHOA! To be a proud mirror of what we see as the Roman Catholic claims is NOT what being a Crazy Evangelical is all about! Often it amuses me how much I have to chide my fellow Protestants to actually BE Protestant... not to say OK, who can be more “Roman Catholic” in attitude (though not in doctrine)... you or the Roman Catholic communion?
Hey Ma’am, I pray the Lord you get a spiritual momentum going.
It is heartening to me to see lay efforts pull together like this, and I believe the official Baptist clergy are less averse to participation in such than some official Roman Catholic clergy are, but it isn’t a question of clergy here. It’s a question of believers with Christ in their hearts. I am an “honorary” Baptist, I suppose. I worship at a Baptist church. But I’m not an official member; I am actually a member still of my old nondenominational Bible church in Illinois. If the Baptists approach me to join, then I’ll discuss it (I’d willingly go teetotal for it if needed, though I think they ought to change to a positive “glorify God in your body” focus in their congregational covenant, rather than a negative “never drink alcohol” focus). But they accept me in all worship including praise music (what I did on keyboards a couple Sundays ago knocked their spiritual socks off: “God And God Alone.”)
I already prayed for your spiritual success. Remember to make exalting the Lord and asking for His exaltation a primary point. Whether prayers to other entities can help is a matter on which we obviously go different doctrinal directions... but ultimately it’s the exaltation of the Lord that matters. I’ll risk hoots from my Protestant fellows by saying OK, I’ll grant that Mary might... an archangel might... with the caveat that both depend on validity of post-biblical claims to special revelation... but you KNOW when you have. There will be NO doubt (if you positively want to see that it is done right do it yourself).
So what is the timing for this?
With all due respect, Crazy Evangelicals disagree for good reason: the very early Jewish nature of the church which quickly switched over to a Gentile nature as the Jewish community officially soured on Christianity. Pressure from Pharisees was heavy and weak Jewish Christians really didn't like being split off from their families. The major power passed to Gentiles who had no such traditional bonds to overcome. However... PASSOVER customs from back then CLEARLY treat all elements as metaphorical. And, the symbolic communion WORKS... spiritual renewal rededicating them to the exaltation of Jesus Christ can be sensed by sincere participants. Unless Christ is so flexible that He will transsubstantiate into skeptical Baptists' bread and grape juice, something else is happening here.
Actually, since Christ says *the* there is no way to make that determination either.
“Sola Scriptura is nowhere to be found in Scripture”
It appears that you do not understand the meaning of Sola Scriptura. You continue to present a distorted caractature that is simply a straw man.
Disbelieve what you pleases, but at least understand what you choose to disbelieve.
Besides “the” flesh they were just talking about was His flesh.
You don’t preach gospel then, whatever you do preach. You guys have gone wrong, period. God always was trinitarian from the very first “let Us” in Genesis. He waited until gospel times to show that character explicitly — possibly because it would have confused a world that He was seeking to rescue from a myriad of false (and disunited) gods if revealed too soon.
Tell me. Where would you be if transubstantiation did NOT occur?
Could you or would you still be saved, going to heaven?
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