Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
Posted on 08/27/2013 11:53:37 AM PDT by NYer
Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.
Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.
When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:
Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.
I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:
I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”
This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”
“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”
I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.
This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.
So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?
If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.
Godspeed,
Taylor
PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.
PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!
Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people
HMMMmmm...
I wonder if any of the following slept in that bed?
Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.[1]
Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.
Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy
Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy
Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.[2]
Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.[3]
Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony[4]
Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.
( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
KINDA???
I think you spelled DOWNRIGHT wrong!
Looks to me like the Jews of Jesus day would disagree with you. When Jesus said this.
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
Scripture plainly shows us what was meant when it recorded the Jewish response.
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
Looks to me like Jesus did indeed call Himself God.
He also said He was God here:
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Now what did God call Himself?
Exodus 3:14…Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Once again.
Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
Who shed His blood? And still you claim that “Nowhere in Scripture is Jesus called God”?
And more:
Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Still want to tell us that “Nowhere in Scripture is Jesus called God”?
And you can't understand that until the Holy Spirit guides you in truth and righteousness found in His Word.
And you can't understand that until you are saved.
And you can't understand that until you are reconciled to God.
And you can't understand that until you accept the FINISHED WORK of Christ for your salvation.
And you can't understand that until you realize that your own works of righteousness will NEVER be enough to get you over the finish line.
And you can't understand that until you accept the fact that that is EXACTLY what your church teaches as the "Gospel".
And you can't understand that until you realize that is a lie.
And you can't understand that until you are guided by truth and true righteousness found in His Word. Not the fallible edicts from a bunch of fallible men.
And the circle goes on and on...
You're on a ferris wheel of deceit. I'm sure it's very entertaining, and you're having a great time, and you think you can see forever, and you never want it to end. But it eventually ends for all of us. Either you will stop it yourself by DEMANDING to be let off, or God will stop it for you when you die.
I pray you will yell at the top of your lungs "STOP! I want off NOW!" And run to God's Word to 2 Cor. 5:14-21. Your salvation is to be found there.
I will leave you alone now. I've said my peace and counted to three...
I don’t suppose you saw this part of the New Testament.
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. John 14:16,17
1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
We have that same Spirit if we will listen.
Acts 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.
Why do some not learn?
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
****but clearly no more than any other servant God has chosen to work through.*****
The truth of who she bore in her womb attests to the honor which God has shown her. That truth also attests to the singular specialness of her, regardless of how often she is mentioned in Scripture or how little as the case may be.
As for her role in Scripture, or rather her “fading away” as you say, there is a clear reason for that. The New Testament is all about Jesus and the early church.
First it relates the birth and life and death as well as the actions and teachings of Jesus. Then it explains the reason for all of the above. Together that is the Good News.
Next, in Acts, we learn of the beginnings of the Church and the struggles and triumphs of our early brothers and sisters.
Then we are given instruction in how to live as Christians, how to be in this world and yet not of it.
The doctrines relating to Mary came later because the challenges to the person of Jesus came later. Was He truly Man and truly God? All of the Marian doctrines are directly related to the truth of Jesus as the Christ and as the second person of the Holy Trinity.
That concept, that of the Trinity had not yet been fully formulated before all of that written in the NT was complete, therefore, we don’t see the word used in the NT, nor do we see any real attempt to explain it.
That Mary was not a leader in the Church means nothing regarding her place and any honor shown to her. We don’t know how long she lived. We do know, however that many of the Apostles traveled all over the known world spreading the Good News and that they were martyred. Scriptures does not record much of that, but it happened.
The point is that the history of the Church does not end with what is written in the Canon of Scripture. The history of the Church is ongoing. Heresies and the need to refute them, new understandings of Scripture and more in depth theology are all a part of that post Scriptural history. So are the Marian doctrines.
I only hold you to your own standard.
You made a claim, now back it up with the Scriptures you have read to support it.
You “suppose”? So you make statements of condemnation on supposition? Breathtaking, just breathtaking.
the Pope owns virtually nothing, he lives in an apartment in Vatican City owned by the church, he does have a small staff and a cook. He wears clothing that he does not own (except, perhaps, personal undergarments) he rides in company owned vehicles and when he vacations, it is again in a company owned facility.....much like the president I'd say.....comfortable....but opulent??????
now Protestant mega church preachers OWN the palaces that they live in and can leave them to their families as they pass....that's opulent.
Therefore (and this is GOOD logic) from the Pope on down, all are ZOMBIES!!!
You have got to be kidding. The verse she quoted was the explanation of how the followers who left had gotten it wrong by believing that it was the flesh He was talking about when He said “eat my flesh”. He explained that it was not His real human flesh by saying “the flesh is no help at all”. Yet Catholics claim it’s the flesh in direct contradiction of Jesus own words.
So?
So one group can know what is true while the other is depending on only themselves.
Say i’m getting tired of my wife and want a new model. My church says tough.
If i follow Sola Scriptura i can shop around and find a local congregation and a Scripture interpretation that obliges my wishes.
Hmmm, that would make us First Responders for the Zombie Apocalypse. It all make sense now...;)
All that and we still have the truth. Neat how infallibilty and impeccability are two different words.
The point is not what people understood from what Jesus says about Himself or what Scripture says about Him.
The point is that Scripture never calls Jesus God.
Scripture gives the name Jesus to the Second Person of the Trinity, who is God, but is never called God.
Even today, with our understanding of the Trinity, we do the same. The Father is God, and the Son is Jesus and the third person in the Trinity is the Holy Spirit.
We usually only say use the word God in reference to Jesus or the Holy Spirit when explaining the Trinity. The norm is to use God only when speaking of the Father.
That is why Scripture calls Mary the mother of Jesus. That is His name.
Of course, even in that you are wrong because in Luke, Elizabeth calls Mary the Mother of My Lord.
****If i follow Sola Scriptura i can shop around and find a local congregation and a Scripture interpretation that obliges my wishes.*****
Or failing that, start one of your own:)
So the Holy Spirit is not the author of chaos, it is just that only a small minority are actually led to truth.
That’s not comforting.
NO, He didn’t. He explained that rather succinctly as well.
John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
So you see. He knew who had not been believers anyway. They wouldn’t have believed what He was saying even if it was written in scripture. Just like many Catholics and doubters in every church, denomination and area of life.
I condemned no one. Just made the mistake, which i already admitted to, of assuming a sacramentality to others’ use of rings in a church ceremony.
If Jesus’ flesh is “no help at all” why did he bother becoming Incarnate?
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