Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
Posted on 08/27/2013 11:53:37 AM PDT by NYer
Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.
Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance
I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.
When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:
Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.
I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:
I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”
This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”
“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”
I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.
This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.
So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?
If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.
Godspeed,
Taylor
PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.
PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!
Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people
It merely walked like a duck and quacked like one.
I'm thinking your religion should change the prayer to this:
Oh my Jesus forgive me my sins, save me from the fires of hell and lead my soul to heaven, especially me, in need of thy mercy. Amen.
You guys may not consider that to be a significant change but I am convinced that it makes all the difference in the world to God...
So, you change a prayer asking for mercy for "us" (i.e. others and me) to one asking for mercy just for "me."
And you think the selfish version is better approved by God?
That does indeed say a lot. Enjoy your own personal savior.
Pagan is pagan.
If we are criticised for having Christmas trees, you can’t escape criticism for wedding bands.
Pagan is pagan. Either pagan things can be used for good, or they should be eschewed entirely.
Wedding rings are not pagan. The pagans got the ideas from the Jews.
Look up Jewish wedding customs and traditions. WHY do you think God points us to the Jewish wedding so often?
One wonders if any of these here have ever cutseyed and if they consider that to be worship forbidden by the commandment.
Yes. These words have a meaning.
Like I have long said, "scratch a Maryphobe and find a deficient Christology." They go hand-in-hand.
Sorry. Sola scriptura.
It takes on an even greater significance when you consider some recent scientific findings.
Microchimerism is the persistent presence of a few genetically distinct cells in an organism. This was first noticed in humans many years ago when cells containing the male “Y” chromosome were found circulating in the blood of women after pregnancy. Since these cells are genetically male, they could not have been the women’s own, but most likely came from their babies during gestation.
Scientists Discover Children’s Cells Living in Mothers’ Brains
Those "Bible Hub" links you provided in your post are great resources! Thanks for sharing them with me!
(I have a book version of "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance", and it is difficult to lift it, let alone find stuff in it!) :-)
I think you are on the right track in your reasoning about these matters, but just haven't taken them far enough yet. The meaning of that commandment is that we should not make idols of other gods, or worship those idols (if someone else made them). The "cross images" one sees in the front of most Protestant churches are NOT made or believed to be idols, and when the congregation kneels in prayer while facing those crosses in the front, they are NOT worshiping those cross images.
You just have to extend that idea further to the truth that the statues you see in Catholic churches are NOT made or seen as "idols" or "gods" either, and when people kneel in prayer in front of those statues, they are NOT worshiping them either, or seeing them as "idols" or "gods", but rather, just simple images like the Protestant cross images.
The Catholic Church teaches that we should only worship God, and we should not make or use idols of any kind. That is the simple truth, whether one chooses to believe it or not.
Have a great day, metmom!
Now, to make myself clear, the Catholic doctrine forbids adoration of statues, images, or of any being or person other than Almighty God. The same goes for all other Christian denominations of which I am aware.
All of us believe n adoration of the Creatror alone; never the creature. Any assertion to the contrary is based on ignorance ---I hope. No Christians are polytheist: I suppose that's a tautology, since it is implied in the definition of Christian.
I am at a lost how to explain the very, very small subset of people on FR who don't get this; who misinterpret all of the common forms of religious veneration found in the Bible, as adoration. I assume you understand the difference between the two, as they occur so frequently in the Bible --- Abigail prostrating to David; David bowing to the Temple; Solomon bowing low to Bathsheba --- and yet you continue to misinterpret them when done by Christians, after it has been explained to them exhaustively. ("Exhaustively" --- THAT is the word.
So I must close my portion of the discussion, on which I have probably spent too much time.
If my toast is now blackened --- OK, it's a burnt offering. Good day to you and to all.
BTW, I m having a computer screen problem --- letters displayed almost illegibly --- so this may or may not signal the end of my FR activity for awhile, unless my husband figures out how to fix it! If you're a praying person, pray :o)
Pew (Pew Link Here) says 84%.
CIA World Factbook (CIA link here) says 82%.
So my present best guess is 82%.
I've got to get my computer screen fixed, because it;s almost illegible. My husband says it's not the monitor, it's the hard drive, and he's going to try to fix it. Bye!
Not just that...Are you guys serving Mary???
Catholics don't have a corner on the market.
They are the only ones, however, who claim to be doing it the *right* way, which is basically according to their teaching.
However, that teaching violates a whole bunch of other Scripture, therefore their interpretation of that verse is wrong and Jesus Himself even clarified when He said that the flesh profits nothing. It's the SPIRIT that gives life.
Don't eat blood. The life is in the blood.
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Well, the Bereans, whom Paul praised, seemed to have the answer.
I didn't say that it did.
However, the clear command by God is to NOT BOW DOWN.
This is my body, which will be given up for you. It profits nothing.
What an odd interpretation. Do you really think Jesus was saying his body would achieve nothing?
Why was He Incarnated if the flesh gets Him (and us) nothing?
I not only showed the scripture where God not only authorized it, he encourages it...
Luk_18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
You guys don't care much for what God says, do ya???
That does indeed say a lot. Enjoy your own personal savior.
I certainly hope it does...And I do...
Mrs don-o has shown you numerous Scriptural citations where people did indeed bow down. Did you read them?
Perhaps it is not about posture, but about what is in the heart?
It's that that you really have a problem with. The fact that Catholics remember and revere the work God has done in other people. And that we are community.
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