MegaChurch or Catholic Church?

taylormarshall.com ^ | August 26, 2013 | Dr. Taylor Marshall

[NYer]

Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.

Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance

I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.

Why the Megachurch?

When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:

1. “My new church has an iPhone app. I can go on my iPhone and get Bible studies, sermons (video and audio). When I travel I can still watch the sermon, either live or later. I feel apart of the community.”
2. “The preaching is dynamic and speaks to my life. I find practical encouragement.”
3. “I felt judged at the Catholic Church.”
4. “People were not friendly or welcoming at the Catholic Church. The first time I went to my new church, I was welcomed by so many people.”
5. “My new church has classes and courses that are interesting and helpful.”
6. “The music is better.”
7. “In the Catholic Church, they use a lot of words that I did not understand.”
8. “People pray for each other and know each other (in the megachurch).”

Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.

I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:

1. “There are not any crosses in my new church. I know it makes some people feel uncomfortable, but I wish we had crosses.”
2. “What will I do when I die?” They were both unclear about whether they could get anything like Last Rites at the megachurch.

What About the Eucharist?

I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”

This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”

“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”

I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.

The Problem

This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.

So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?

If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.

Godspeed,
Taylor

PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.

PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!

Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people

[Iscool]

I am aware of what the Bible says, but thanks for the link anyway.

What, you just don't believe it???

[Iscool]

Many Mexicans leave the Catholic denomination after escaping Mexico.

Many Mexicans escape the Catholic denomination after leaving Mexico.

[Iscool]

2 Timothy 3:16,17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly unto all good works. So while Catholics cling to their traditions and the doctrines of Rome, that may not be the best course. Gal. 1-8 but even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. Not many Hail Marys,rosary beads or Holy Fathers in their recorded conversations.

[Iscool]

Someone pretending to be God, ain’t God...

[kevao]

Mary was indeed special, in that she was chosen by God to birth Jesus. But if that specialness of Mary translates into something of an extra-special, spiritual nature, then why does Jesus’ brother Jude, also birthed by Mary, always get such short shrift? One would think he would have inherited through Mary a little spiritual intercession power too. Yet nobody ever asks Jude for anything.

I ask as a skeptic, because I can’t fathom Mary being able to intercede on my behalf any more effectively than Jesus, the Father, or the Holy Spirit Himself. Nonetheless, my question is sincere. I’ve always been puzzled by people praying to Mary. Why not just go to the source — the Creator Himself? It is permissible, so why settle for second best?

[Iscool]

Are you married? Do you or your spouse wear wedding rings? Can you show me where they are found in the Bible?

Difference is: we can not find where it is condemned in the bible...

The things your religion does, we can find all over the scriptures and the scriptures condemns them...

[Iscool]

Where does Jesus tell us to pray to Him?

That's a Catholic thing...It doesn't tell us to pray to Jesus...If it isn't spelled right out, the Catholic don't know where to find it...It doesn't exist...

However, like everything else one has to;

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

The very last prayer in the New Testament is addressed to Jesus by the Apostle John: “Even so come, Lord Jesus!” (Revelation 22:20

Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my Spirit” (Acts 7:59)

In the Gospels, Jesus was worshipped, and He accepted it (John 9:38)

Paul prayed to Jesus when he besought the Lord to remove his thorn in the flesh (2 Corinthians 12:8)

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

There are prayers to Jesus all over the bible...Catholics seem to have a hard time understanding that Jesus is God...

Scripture tells us that God is Lord, Jesus is Lord and the Holy Spirit is Lord...

[circlecity]

"Oops, guess you did after all."

No, I'm just once bitten twice shy.

[jodyel]

Traded one heresy for another.

Girls have no discernment whatsoever.

[jodyel]

Should call them Barbie-churches then. lol

Osteen has a certain Ken-like quality, huh?

[jodyel]

OMG, that is hilarious!!! lol

Very good one!

[Mrs. Don-o]

Here’s where the confusion comes in. What’s forbidden is bowing in adoration; not bowing as a sign of honor or respect.

Can I show that Biblically? Sure. It permeates Old Testament culture.

I looked up “kneel(ing)” and “bow(ing)” in the good old BibleGateway Keyword Search, and found so many references it would be exhausting to list them all.

Genesis 23:7 Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of that land

Genesis 33:3-7 Jacob bowed down to the ground seven times as he approached his brother Esau

maidservants and their children bow down to Esau

Leah and her children bow down

Joseph and Rachel bow. Etc. etc!

Genesis 37 Joseph’s dreams: his brothers’ sheaves of corn -— and then the sun and moon and eleven stars —— bow down to him. Later his brothers actually do bow down to him with their faces to the ground

Genesis 48:11 Joseph bows to Jacob “with his face to the earth.”

1 Kings 1:15 Bathsheba bows low (face to the ground) and kneels before the aged king David

2 Kings 1:13 the captain kneels before the prophet Elijah, and “prays” —begs-— him to spare his life and the life of his 50 men

Moses bows down to father-in-law; Ruth bows down to Boaz;

David prostrates before Jonathan;

David prostrates to Saul;

Abigail prostrates to David;

Saul prostrates to Samuel;

Nathan prostrates to David;

Obadiah bows to the ground before Elijah;

the prophets in Jericho bow before Elisha;

the “whole assembly” bows low and prostrates before David;
David bows to the Temple;

David prostrates to Jerusalem;

God causes the king’s adversaries to bow prostrate on the ground and “lick the dust at his feet”;

the sons of the oppressors will bow to Zion.

OK, pretty obviously the patriarchs, prophets, and kings knew about the commandment not to bow down and worship anything or anybody but God. But here they are bowing, kneeling, and prostrating, and God is not offended. Why?

Because the commandment clearly forbids bowing and worshipping a creature as the Creator; it does not forbid kneeling or bowing (to king, prophet, father, husband or brother) as a form of honor.

The commandment does not prohibit kneeling or bowing to giv honor. It prohibits adoration toward anyone but Almighty God.

Now here’s an interesting episode:

1 Kings 2:19
When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand.

Here’s the King bowing to his mother. Does that mean she’s equal to God? No. It doesn’t even mean she’s equal to the King. It means he’s pleased to honor her because of her royal dignity, her relationship as Queen Mother.

As our mindset gets further and further from traditional custom and culture, it gets harder and harder to grasp what was once the universal language of physical gesture (he salute, the tip of the hat, the bow, the genuflection, the handclasp, the curtsey, the kiss) and put each expression in its proper perspective.

It’s something to ponder and appreciate. As I live, I appreciate it more and more.

[NYer]

The second commandment says not to BOW DOWN before the images. Bowing is bowing.

[NYer]

GOD does not have a mother. Jesus had a mother and the Holy Spirit in the Scripture He breathed out calls her *mother of Jesus*

Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God.

Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)—and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ.

The Nestorian claim that Mary did not give birth to the unified person of Jesus Christ attempts to separate Christ’s human nature from his divine nature, creating two separate and distinct persons—one divine and one human—united in a loose affiliation. It is therefore a Christological heresy, which even the Protestant Reformers recognized. Both Martin Luther and John Calvin insisted on Mary’s divine maternity. In fact, it even appears that Nestorius himself may not have believed the heresy named after him. Further, the "Nestorian" church has now signed a joint declaration on Christology with the Catholic Church and recognizes Mary’s divine maternity, just as other Christians do.

Since denying that Mary is God’s mother implies doubt about Jesus’ divinity, it is clear why Christians (until recent times) have been unanimous in proclaiming Mary as Mother of God.

[Elsie]

I'm sure glad I got out of that frying pan!!

Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch

Dang!?

Is that ASHES on my feet?

[Elsie]

2.“What will I do when I die?”

Honey; you'll turn to dust.

Just like ALL the 'saints' and even Mary has done.

Together we'll ALL await the Last Trump as the Dead in Christ.

Then, we'll arise to meet Him in the air, to ever be with the Lord.

[Elsie]

Joel Osteen preaches a feel good sermon that’s not judgmental...

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Indeed!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaE9w8RNJao

[Elsie]

So did Ma Bell...

[Elsie]

Heck; I was ‘judged’ before I sinned!

John 3:18

[Elsie]

They just be veneratin’!!