Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
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| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
I am however, the church...
Are you half-Catholic or something??? Many of the Catholics on these threads claim that once they are baptized with water they are assured of a place in purgatory...And the fires of the pits of purgatory are a guarantee (eventually) of heaven...
Thankfully, you have restored my faith in the Catholic religion...
So if you are telling the truth (pertaining to your religion), we know there's not a single one of you that has any idea whether he/she will be cast into hell, or not...
But there's one thing you miss...If some or all of you are potentially headed for hell, how in the world do you think you are in the Body of Christ??? How in the world do you think you are Christians??? You really think Jesus would send Christians to hell??? You guys need to give our name back...
There are two things in there...You guys keep avoiding the other one...
Who needeth not daily (as the other priests) to offer sacrifices first for his own sins, and then for the people' s
There is no longer any need for priests...They have no function in the Body of Christ...
Nope...That baptism is internal...Absolutely no water involved...You can't see it happen, unless we all start to talk in foreign languages when it happens...
And that's another reason why God condemns your religion...It doesn't matter what you mix together God will not accept you changing what he has commissioned...
I'm glad you pointed that out showing us that the Catholic religion has never had a legitimate water baptism...
When St. Paul writes of "divers washings" in Hebrews 9:10, he actually writes "διαφοροις βαπτισμοις", "various baptisms".
No...The entire context is the obsolete priesthood of the OT where things that were unclean were to be washed, not baptized...Again, no need for priests...Jesus took care of it all since we are now washed with his blood, not drunk, but washed...
Now there you go again...These threads are full of Catholics who claim that the Catholic religion offers the Eucharist to the Father...
It is the non Catholic position because it is the bible position...
All his miracles had a material aspect to them: rub the spit,
That is unabashedly untrue, according to the scriptures...
Indeed,
The moderators cannot enforce "do not post to me" requests. Just ignore the pings you do not want. (posted to an RC.
Riches can be one's real security is idolatry, or can be a hinderance to faith, and thus being rich is not to be one's real goal in life, and therefore the command to certain rich souls to divest themselves of their wealth .
However, the command to the rich by Paul in 1Tim 6 was not to divest themselves of all their wealth and live in poverty, but "that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate [share];" (1 Timothy 6:17-18)
Being ready to share of their wealth out of a heart surrendered to Christ is not the same as divesting themselves of all their wealth and living in poverty. Yet it is hard for a rich man as a rich man to enter the kingdom of God, due to the false security and selfishness that usually genders, which is contrary to salvific faith. But with God all things are possible.
And as said, it is not by literally leaving all that one gains eternal life, but by having saving faith which is characterized by obedience, forsaking all in heart being part of that, (Lk. 14:33) and the resultant works of faith are rewarded in grace in addition to the gift of eternal life.
Oh, THAT I remember very well and I stand by every word of what I posted; my position is wholly scriptural and I showed the relevant scripture. Thank you for giving us a summary.
What I don’t remember is a minor aside in which you got involved; it is minor and silly, so I don’t feel like going back through the thread researching it. It had to do with the use of “and” in Matthew 19:21. You never explained what it was and how this “and” supposedly makes it so that Matthew 19:21 does not recommend selling the possessions and giving them to the poor in order to “have life everlasting” (Matthew 19:16). If you can explain now, please do.
Generally, God Who is one in three Persons, is doing the miraculous work of every sacrament. It is not proper to say “it is the Holy Ghost but not Christ”. All three are present in every sacrament, even though we at times refer to one Divine Person before another. For example, in the Holy Eucharist, Christ is offering His body to God the Father and the Holy Spirit makes the bread and the wine holy so that the Mass can take place. Sorry If I did not make it clear.
You have been shown to be in error over and over again by multiple people who have proven your error with scripture. I believe that sufficient time has been spent showing that it would be eternally damaging to take whatever you say as consistent with what scripture teaches. What you teach is contrary to what scripture teaches and all would be well advised to take what you post as not from the Holy Spirit. I will no longer debate with you but rest assured I will still correct your blatant errors as I believe your teachings to be dangerous to ones eternal destiny should they believe what you say.
That's an understatement! I haven't seen a cogent response from that one, but like you feel it necessary to present Scriptural proofs in context for refutation. I see most RC's rely much heavier on their "traditions" and parse the Word in order to dig out a portion which they think helps explain their errors. But, Paul says it best...
2 Timothy 2: 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. -NIV
shows an important point about the veneration of saints: the ability of a saint far exceed the ability of anyone prior to his sanctification in heaven.
The one the the same gospel. The reference to "gospel" here is of course, to the entire doctrine of Christ, whether expressed in the gospels, or the epistles, or, -- at least as we Catholics understand it, -- in the continuing teaching of the living Church. So, the gospel has a call to conversion and baptism, but it is not its entire content. There is also call to learning, to virtue, to sanctity, -- all these are preached to the baptized. So it is entirely possible to preach the gospel to people already converted to Catholicism, -- our priests do it at every Mass, and in fact, Protestant ministers also preach primarily to the congregation that is already baptized. St. Paul also said something similar, and a look at his letters show depth of content specifically for people who are already committed Christians. So I don't understand your premise that "repent and be baptized for remission of sins" cannot be a part of the same one gospel.
Do you still think that water baptism is for today?
Of course. Christ's command is for all times: the life in His Church begins at baptism. At the entrance of a church there is a cup of holy water, or often an entire baptismal pool. When you enter the church and when you exit it you dip your fingers in the water and cross yourself. That is a reminder of the sweet water of baptism that made you a Catholic man, called to be saint.
Indeed, the same man who recorded Mary called Mother of the LORD.
You really think Jesus would send Christians to hell?
Well, Christians send themselves to hell if they refuse to love God. Yes, it is entirely possible for a Catholic man to end up in hell. In fact, any Catholic who left the Church for one Protestant cult or another is already one foot in hell.
There is no need for Jewish priests. Christ commanded His Apostles to become Catholic priests when He sent them to offer the Holy Eucharist (Luke 22:19) and to remit sins (John 20:21-23). The need for the Catholic priests remains today and "until he come" (1 Cor. 11:26).
It is Christ Who offers the Holy Eucharist at each Mass. The priest is a stand-in for Christ.
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