Posted on 08/15/2013 7:03:11 PM PDT by annalex
Once a woman in the crowd surrounding Christ and His disciples cries out to Him:
Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the paps that gave thee suck. (Luke 11:27)
What is it? We have, clearly, an act of venerating Mary. Note that the Blessed Virgin is venerated properly: not on her own but as the mother of Christ. Yet the reason for venerating is indeed concerning: it is her physiological and physiologically unique relationship with Jesus that is emphasized. That is not yet paganism with its crude theories of gods giving birth to other gods, but it is lacking proper focus and Jesus corrects it:
Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it. (Luke 11:28)
|
| The Virgin with the Child on her knees and a prophet pointing at the star. Catacomb of Priscilla, late 2nd c. Source |
Having gotten past this linguistic hurdle, we can understand clearly what this passage, Luke 11:27-28, does: it establishes veneration of saints based not on their blood relation to Christ but on their obedience to God. It is in that sense that we venerate Our Lady: given that Christ is the Word of God personified, she heard and kept both Him in person as her Child and His teaching, figuratively. In Mary the essence of sainthood is seen in the flesh as well as in the mind. We could say that by the late second century at the latest, when we find evidence of the veneration of both the prophets and the Mother of God in the catacombs, the two reasons to venerate a saint: his martyrdom as in the case of Polycarp, or his obedience to the Word, as in Mary, -- unite into a single practice.
The conversation was treating saints like gods. You said you didn’t. I showed where you do. God does the healing not Paul and not Anthony and neither should be praised or prayed to. The practice of the RCC and it’s teachings is contrary to scripture as you have been shown over and over again.
We don't have an example of baptism but in water in the Holy Scripture: "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Ghost, as well as we?" (Acts 10:47). The Church made some exceptions when physical baptism was not available, for example, because the convert faced death, but ordinarily water is necessary, as the previous scripture illustrates.
Your weakness in knowledge of scripture is showing. Scripture has shown the teaching of the RCC and your promoting of them are in error and your feeble attempt to somehow salvage your polemic is rather pathetic. And your claim of Job somehow being a Catholic is absolutely ludicrous.
LOL, good point. Maybe Elijah and Moses did appear on earth, like Our Lady at Fatima. I won't argue with that. My point was, they passed on to life eternal but have not received their glorified bodies that the saints shall receive at the General Judgment.
OK, you got it. And your point is?
Correct, that is what the text says.
what verse did you get that one from?
Peter saw Christ and two saints and despite fear, he felt "it was good". That is all.
The apostles did not converse with Moses and Elijah
That is what I wrote, yes.
Jesus does not have a tabernacle made with hands
Peter wanted to make one and the Jews made one for their purposes; the photograph shows actual man-made tabernacle.
It must been some spirit drug up
You don't think that is the lesson? What do you think the lesson of the Transfiguration is?
The text does indeed speak for itself.
Matthew 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
Your attempt to disregard that and in that verse is telling. Satan likes to deceive like that. The and in that verse says something to those of us who are Holy Spirit filled followers of Christ. I’ll give you a little hint. It doesn’t say to leave all that to gain eternal life.
You may want to go preach to the Catholics. Holy Spirit filled followers of Christ and those He is calling aren’t impressed with your “explanations”.
My point is your duplicity and lack of credibility in what you preach.
Careful, Iscool, our FRiend doesn't appreciate nor read "dissertations" from others, but failing to read his detailed responses (i.e., dissertations) and not "paying attention to the stuff" he writes is rude, I tell you, just rude!
I guess trying to be like Jesus is not for your average Catholic, then, eh?
There’s nothing in Scripture that says a rich man must give away all his money and end his days in a monastery if he wants to be saved.
I can't begin to tell you how THRILLED I was to find you actually agreed with me about something - or maybe not "agreed" put "don't exactly disagree"! It's almost like Christmas morning accessing my pings and seeing this!
The part of your comments that I exactly DO disagree with is your contention that, "Obviously, if someone makes money and then donates all of it, then he is fine per the Gospel". This sounds suspiciously like buying ones way into heaven. Is this what you are saying? I'd point you to that great wedding chapter of I Corinthians 13, where Paul states, "If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing." (I Cor. 13:3) So, sorry, even IF one gave everything they owned to the "poor", it would NOT be fine per the Gospel. Receiving the gift of everlasting life by the grace of God through faith is what saves and is perfectly fine per the TRUE gospel.
Because St Anthony can't restore eyesight.
That is a perfect example of what is wrong with the whole praying to saints thing.
Where is Jesus in all that? Who's getting the credit for the miracle? It sure isn't God.
Dead people are getting credit for the works of God.
That's just wrong on so many levels.
It is rude, you know, to get a detailed response form me, ignore it and continue droning on without paying attention to the stuff I write. If you prefer, I may be ignoring your posts as well.
Are you suggesting that the saints spoken of in those verses are saints, in heaven, who then pass off the prayers to the elders or the angels who then pass them off to God???
All that verse indicates is that you need water for a 'water' baptism...In no way does it say that all baptisms are water baptisms...
Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Isn't that the truth...They completely ignore the baptism of the Holy Ghost...And then claim they are Christians...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.