editor-surveyor: This is going to have to be a "Get Real”" moment.
Ah, I'm not sure you "really" want to get into this and become real. Do you?
e-s: I want to say first that I have no desire to impun your chosen chastity WRT alcohol.
You mean "impugn."
My relation to alcoholic beverages is now to follow the counsel of God for all. His Word is not silent about it, but doesn't make it the most important feature of a disciple's life in the NT. But it is one aspect of spiritual maturity, of dying to self, to Sin as a master, and to the world. Dying to booze as an example to family and the assembly is a part of that. All new-born spiritual babes come in not looking much different in their life as they did in their previous carnal one. Leaving those habits and occupations behind is a part of spiritual growth. Some argue against it, and can't, or won't, and leave little question except to relate to them as if they really had not been born again.
e-s: Have you ever read the second chapter of John carefully enough to determine what time of the year it was?
Well, one really needs to start with Jesus' baptism by John Baptizer, in mid-to-late AD 29 (of the 15th year of the reign of Tiberias Caesar, Lk. 3:1), where John was preaching repentance, and baptizing near the Dead Sea. It was a good time for that--Tishri, Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles--when so many would have come back to Jerusalem nearby, and he set up shop at the Jordan crossing, not far from Aenon, either. You know, preaching about repentance kind of went along with Yom Kippur at the Temple. (You must realize that it had not yet gotten so cold that nobody came out for baptisms?)
Immediately after that baptism, Jesus went into the desert for 40 days. The end of the testing was in Kislev (early Dec.) and He then went back to Beit Ha'arava, was seen of John, who pointed Him out to prist and Levites, as well as some of his own disciples.
After about three days, Jesus had inducted some of John's disciples, as well as Nathanael (of Cana) and they started out for Galilee, their homeland. It took about three days at a fast walk to Nazareth (Lk. 4:16), then a couple more hours to Cana. (Was it Nathanael who invited him?) Anyway, Jesus' mother was there, so one would suggest that her friends would be commoners, but pretty religious folks that she would affiliate with. For instance the home had stone pots to store water fit for ceremonial purposes.
e-s: The wedding was just over a week before Passover, which is always in the middle of the month of the Aviv. This was a traditional spring wedding.
Sorry, Scripture cannot support your hypothesis here. Back-calculating from Jesus' first Passover in his ministry by using the chronology of his time after Cana until Passover, this wedding could not possibly be when you claim it was. Who is it that does not read his Bible? (BTW, The month of the Feast of Dedication, Kislev 25, Hannukah,is about the most auspicious Jewish wedding time, and the days before Passover are not.)
e-s: Where would anyone find grape juice in that time of the year?
Well, when we lived in Western New York State, we could get as many Concord grapes as we wanted from the region. My Mom was a very prudent housewife, and canned much of our table food for use in the winter. One of the best things was her grape juice made from those grapes. I'm sure there must have been forty to fifty quarts each yar, because every Sunday, after Dad's sermons, one of our Sunday dinner treats was either a glass of her tomato juice, or a glass of her delicious grape juice. And that always came out whenever we had a dinner party.
Are you awake yet? This is my class, now.
Moreover, about ten years ago, I got some grape juice to test its longevity. Remembering my childhood days, when I made maple syrup from the trees in our yard, I gently boiled the juice down into a viscous syrup, put it in a glass jar, covered it, and put it on the top shelf of my cupboard. Every year or so, i take the jar down, remove a little syrup, reconstitute it with water, and have a glass of remade unfermented wine. Without refrigerating, at room temperature, summer and winter the syrup has demonstrated no change.
Frankly, the drink thus made is clearly not as good as fresh juice, but it is drinkable.
Have I got your attention yet? It's going to be a ten or zip exam --
Do you suppose that if the Lord had made our juice, it might have been just a little better, being so fresh? I'll tell you one thing -- if it had been alcoholic, my Methodist pastor Dad would have spit it out. Why? just in honor of his alcoholic brother and sister, that's why, and because the Methodist Discipline at that time justly rejected alcoholic consumption for a pastor.
I will have more to say about the customs of the times regarding preservation of grape juice, but right now I do not have time. However, unfermented grape juice was always available, and in quantities.
e-s: And who would have praised the quality after having had wine earlier, and then served grape juice?
Come now, don't be an ass about this. Read the above
e-s: Put your bias aside, and read the chapter with more discernment of what is actually being said.
You mean, put aside a forensic approach, and a literal-grammatical historical hermeneutic And take your bias of applying only human reasoning and your opinion? No thanks.
e-s: Also note that Yeshua had done more than just make wine; he had defiled the ceremonial hand washing pots of the pharisees, a total rejection of their Takanot for "the washing of the hands."
You make a great error here. Jesus came to fulfill the Law, otherwise He fails. In this matter, He not only would not, but could not contravene the moral or ceremonial Scriptural ordinances, and hence would not have defiled these vessels by placing leavened/fermented material in them. Shame on you, if you claim to know anything about His earthly ministry. His diet was to do the determined Will of The Father sending Him.
e-s: (he had a later run-in with them recorded in Matthew on this same subject)
Yes, but not whether or not it was He that observed personal cleanliness as well as ritual cleansing. The carping was about his disciples not washing their hands. Do you leave the bathroom without washing your hands?
If you take the following comment to be pejorative, it is not meant so. It is more that of a student who has learned from the best; not as condemning criticism.
I think you meant YEAR here.
>> e-s: “Have you ever read the second chapter of John carefully enough to determine what time of the year it was?”
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>> “Well, one really needs to start with Jesus’ baptism by John Baptizer, in mid-to-late AD 29 (of the 15th year of the reign of Tiberias Caesar, Lk. 3:1” <<
.
No, one need not do that, since the 2nd chapter of John clearly sets out the relationship of the days from the wedding, through his short stay in Capernaum, and the subsequent trip to Jerusalem for the Passover. None of these events are recorded in the other gospels, so your aimless wandering in Luke offers no help to your vapid position.
Your dates are also way off, and there is no excuse for that in this day of computers and information.
Yeshua was born on the High Sabbath of Succot, in the 15th day of the 7th month (Sept 26, 3 BC by the Julian)
He was circumcised on the High Sabbath of The Last Great Day, 22nd day, 7th month (Oct 3, 3 BC by the Julian)
He was baptised on the Sabbath, 20th day, 11th month (Feb 16, 27 AD by the Julian)
His ministry was exactly 70 weeks long (affirming prophecy) ending at Shavuot on the 8th day, 3rd month (June 20, 28 AD by the Julian.
So much for your smoke screen!
You do need much education, yes scripture strongly confirms the time of the Cana wedding as a week before Passover.