Ping!
There are practicing Catholics and there’s the rest of ‘em. The ones that frequent church are usually pro life.
Most of the sheep go where the shepherd leads them. If the shepherd stops doing his job and lets them wander away, then they will wander away.
Considering that far too many self-professed “Christians”, regardless of denomination, are too lazy study and actually APPLY God’s Word, they need their religious leadership (aka clergy/pastors/preachers) to tell them the truth.
Too many of the aforementioned leaders won’t touch abortion - and indeed run from even the mention of it because it is “decisive”.
Hello - why is it divisive? Because we haven’t spoken up the truth. I can speak to this because I am a pastor. I know the anxiety that comes when the Lord leads me to speak on those “divisive” issues. But the truth is the truth, and when we avoid an issue simply because it is “divisive”, its no wonder that 50+% of self-identified “Catholics” support unrestricted abortion. And it is no wonder that many in other lines of Christianity also are weak on abortion.
So - if you couldn’t tell - I don’t necessarily buy into the article linked.
The Catholic Church and it faithful member have been at the forefront in the battle to preserve life. I thank them for their efforts. Without them our nation would be far worse off.
Most of these “catholics” who support abortion aren’t Catholic but had parents who were and left the Church a long time ago.
I disagree. If there is any justice the lack of public discipline for public Catholics who support and promote abortion publicly will be looked back at as a scandal that dwarfs the homosexualist priest scandal.
Any sane 1st grade teacher knows you can’t teach without actual public discipline. Look back at the last 40-50 years. Have the bishops taught that abortion is really a big deal like they say it is or have they given the impression that despite what they say it must not be too big a deal when you get right down to it?
Freegards, thanks for all the pings
Why exactly do we trust ABC + the WA Post?
I don’t particularly agree with this author.
I think he would do well to review some of the writings of previous popes, such as Pascendi Dominici Gregis and Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae.
In the former, St Pius X speaks of how modernism reduced faith down to feelings: “vital immanence”. In the latter, Leo XIII warned the American bishops about compromising the faith to better “fit in” the culture. Both of those things have had disastrous results in the past centuries.
While I think of it, the author should also consider Gregory XVI’s Mirari Vos, where he speaks of the danger of religious indifferentism.
While it is true that it would be unjust to lay all of the blame on the hierarchy for not preaching constantly about moral depravity, there are plenty of areas where they are far from innocent.
For example, in Singulari Quadam, Pope St Pius X warned the bishops that it is their job to ensure that the Faithful are not led astray by labor movements that espouse positions contrary to Church teaching. This was re-emphasized by Pius XI in Quadragesimo Anno and, more recently, was hammered on by Pope Bl. John Paul II in Laborem Exercens (in the latter, the Holy Father explicitly warned about labor unions getting in bed with political parties).
But, yet, when in the past 100 years, has there ever been a warning from an American bishop about activities about labor unions (especially the radically pro-homosexual, pro-abortion NEA)? Hmmmmmm???
We know from the Scriptures (and, yes, my Protestant Friends, the Church does believe in Sacred Scripture), we know that we are not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. We know that a little leaven corrupts the whole lump...
But yet we have things like Catholic Charities...which, for all the good they do, have allowed themselves to become an arm of the Democratic Party. We have CRS, which, for all the good it does, gets in bed with pro-contraception and pro-abortion secular relief agencies. We have CCHD...which is nothing but Saul Alinsky community organizing.
And when members of the laity ask for change...the American hierarchy goes into full defense mode.
So even if the hierarchy manages, occasionally, to preach the right words, those words are betrayed by their actions.
These dissenters are responsible for their own actions, don’t get me wrong, but to attempt to cover up the role (in both word and deed) that the hierarchy played in these folks’ improper formation...that just is laughable.
Since I believe the Bible, it will continue to be a major issue and the lack of true spiritual leadership will get worse - God has spoken about the cesspool the world will become before He makes it right. Maybe we should welcome the decline that leads to His return and just focus on reaching souls that might be saved for His glory. When Jesus told us to "resist not evil" He was not talking about physical abuse being something to endure, He was saying that there are those who will throw insults, slurs, and other evil ideas into the mix and we should not worry about stopping them from it - we should let them have at it and concentrate on carrying the Word of His glorious Love. Evil will not be silenced by any human efforts - He will defeat it, not us.
When those like Nancy Pelosi stand before one and all as a proud catholic championing abortion, among other things, and isn't publicly called out by "official" Catholics in leadership positions for her and our correction and education (isn't that one of their responsibilities?), I'll stop assigning to them their blame.
I think I'm ready to ready Fr. Malachi Martin's books now.
I have to question that poll. I’ve never seen any poll finding that most people are in favor of abortion “in all or most” circumstances. I can’t imagine that Catholics would be any different as a group.
Abortion is wrong....but remaining dogmatic on the issue of birth control within the catholic church lends itself to the issue of abortion.
A lil off topic, but to the same point. Clergy allowed to marry and have a family might reduce clergy sex abuse cases. They are human and have physiological reasons that lead to sexual temptation.
I dunno, I may be off base, but sure seems to make sense to me. Paul wrote, (paraphrase) “if you cannot control your desires then marry.”
I've always been drawn to catholic style of worship, but some of the ideology and theology doesn't really line up with scripture or not supported in scripture...IMO.
I am 100% pro-life. I have worked at a CPC, voted only for pro-life candidates, attended "marches for life"... I even lost a teaching job for refusing to take down a pro-life bulletin board (no graphic pics) and quoted Jer 20:9 as my defense: "Then I said, 'I will not make mention of Him, nor speak anymore in His name.' But His word was in my heart like a burning fire shut up in my bones; I was weary of holding it back, and I could not."
However I have been to churches where abortion is never mentioned, in fact it took me years of fussing at my pastor before he dared to briefly say "abortion is murder" from the pulpit. I am amazed by the number of church-going Christians who do not know how their elected officials stand on abortion! Yes, I blame the churches for not educating the people.
BTW, earlier this week I found myself at a convenience store and someone made a comment about my pro-life shirt. Before I knew what happened I found myself preaching to a small group and when I was about to mention Democrats I realized I was the only white person there! LOL! I took a deep breath and continued, explained that Democratic politicians are pro-abortion and anybody who votes for one of them is complicit in the murder of millions of innocents. A woman argued that "some girls get pregnant and need help" and I just couldn't stop myself. It was deathly quiet when I left the store. My husband wanted to know what took so long to pay for the gas, but when he saw my shaking hands he knew!
Ping for later
I am Catholic as well as everyone in my family. I know a lot of people in my Parish and from previous Parishes I attended and I have yet to meet a Pro-Choice Catholic”.
" . . . a poll commissioned by The Washington Post and ABC . . ."
First, it's a bogus poll.
If you're talking about "Catholics" who were baptized as infants and at best show up for Mass at Christmas and Easter, the poll would be the same as one that reflects the population as a whole and the population as a whole don't support abortion "in most if not all" cases.
People who do show up for Mass on a regular basis have been the backbone of the pro-life movement ever since Roe. They're responsible for keeping the issue in front of the public for so long that we finally have a majority who agree that abortion has to be regulated and limited to some extent and faithful Catholics are still the backbone of the pro-life movement.
I blame people who go along to get along for their own actions. What the parish priest or the bishop does isn't a major concern to such folks. Whether they claim to be Catholic or they claim to be something else, their real religion is American culture. Whatever becomes the majority view most folks find a way to adjust their "Christian" faith to accommodate the changes.
Going along to get along is such a powerful meme that even supposedly conservative "Bible believing" Evangelicals have reversed what they teach about divorce and contraception and now accept both. Once you embrace infanticide as no worse than speeding, embracing everything else is easy. The majority of people who claim to be Catholic accept contraception just like the majority of other folks who claim to be Christian and if a priest or pastor preaches that something they accept is wrong they'll just go elsewhere.
The only difference between Catholics and other Christians is that someone who claims to be Catholic is measured against the standards of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church Jesus Christ Himself established. Non-Catholic folks, on the other hand, measure themselves by the standards of whichever of the tens of thousands of groups they claim to agree with at the moment. Those who claim they're not a part of any organized church only be compare themselves to their Self Alone because the only standard they have is their Most High and Holy Self, the least demanding standard of all.
As for Bishops and Priests, there has never been a shortage of "shepherds", Catholic or anything else, who test the wind and then give the people in the pews exactly what they want to hear. That's how clergy who want to go along to get along behave. If the parents of the people in the pews had made sure their children knew the One True Faith there's a good chance the majority would demand that their priests and bishops stick to the high standards of the One True Church.
People in leadership roles who are actually leaders have always been scarce in most fields. Among clergy they're probably even more scarce than elsewhere and without leaders who stand their ground very few folks will. When real leaders who stand their ground rise to the top, more lower ranks will stand their ground rather than going with the herd. Until then, most Catholic parishes will be just like most non-Catholic congregations and have priests who give the congregation exactly what the majority want.
I completely disagree, NYer, and I doubt seriously if you’ll be able to fool any genuine Catholic with the falsities that you have written. Intentionally or not, you are defending the modernist bishops and priests who would allow the faithful to determine what is right and wrong by themselves without having the benefit of being taught by the Church. You have focused, singularly, on abortion, but there are so many other issues that are also important that would fall under your same twisted reasoning.
You must know that it is the responsibility of the bishop and the priests that they train to teach all mankind the truths of the Catholic Church; the one and only true Church that was created by Jesus Christ, for the purpose of leading all men to salvation. Simply because Vatican II confused these bishops (and many others including you) with their heresies, does not give them a pass. When the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the pit. The modernist bishops would have us believe that collectively “feeding the poor” (whether through a government or a Church-sponsored program) will take us to heaven. The bishops have a duty to abandon their blind pursuit of these humanistic goals that greatly please the secular press, and to speak out against the sins that are leading so many people astray.
Had the bishops spoken out in a timely fashion since the vatican II as they should have on the great moral issues of out day, things might have been different. But they were virtually silent, not only on abortion, but on the countless other examples of the moral decadence of our day like birth control, homosexuality, living together without the benefit of marriage, pornography, masturbation, fidelity to all Church teachings, to name just a few. But they didn’t say a word and we are now witnessing the carnage of human, embryonic life, and the loss of so many souls. It is absolutely the fault of the bishops, along with the those lesser clerics who refuse to help others know and understand the true teachings of the Church that were well defined before the modernists of the heretical Second Vatican Council set their confusion in motion.
You would be wise, NYer, to read some of the many traditional Catholic publications that continue to teach the truth for those Catholics that would care to learn. The Catholic Family News and the Remnant would be an excellent start.