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To: Heart-Rest
You sound EXACTLY like the non-believers in the time of Jesus on Earth sounded, who repeatedly mocked Jesus Christ.

I see your Catholicism is starting to seep out of your pores...

You want to point out where I ever mocked Jesus??? It's your false religion that I'm not afraid to mock...

They reasoned in a very similar way to the way you "reason" -- Jesus LOOKED like a mere human being just like everyone else, and TALKED, WALKED, ATE, DRANK, SMELLED, CRIED, SLEPT, (etc.) just like every other healthy human being, so they DID NOT BELIEVE AT ALL THAT HE WAS GOD!

Jesus was careful to hide his miracles as much as possible...When Jesus performed a miracle, he instructed those close to him to avoid telling anyone...

Those people did not disbelieve Jesus because he looked and acted like a man...They disbelieved his words...

(Discernement is MUCH MORE than just the input of the five physical human senses. You should learn that.) Most of His contemporaries did not see (DISCERN) with the eyes of faith, so they only saw a mere man -- NOT God.

I did learn that...You don't discern with faith...You discern with knowledge...

δοκιμάζω
dokimazō
dok-im-ad'-zo
From G1384; to test (literally or figuratively); by implication to approve: - allow, discern, examine, X like, (ap-) prove, try.

And you certainly didn't learn from knowledge that Jesus did not have brothers and sisters, or that one of your priests can turn the risen body of Jesus Christ into a piece of cracker----to be ingested into your stomach and then somehow be transferred thru the walls of your intestines into your soul...It's a matter of faith, not discernment...

So we can be certain that the verse you posted has nothing to do with spiritually recognizing Jesus blood in a glass of wine...

411 posted on 07/25/2013 5:55:39 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
"You don't discern with faith...You discern with knowledge..."

- - - - - - -

Well, I really hesitate to post this response to you now, as this thread is already getting to be pretty old and "long in the tooth", and the discussion is on a different track now, but your post is begging for a response.

Iscool, you have to discern EVERYTHING in the Bible with faith.    Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else alive today was alive back in any of the Biblical days, so NONE OF US has direct personal knowledge of ANYTHING mentioned in the Bible.

   Rather, we have to discern everything we read in the Bible using the eyes of faith.    And ALL of your knowledge of ALL Biblical things must be discerned through the eyes of faith.

For example, we were not present at the actual Resurrection of Jesus -- in fact, NO mere human beings were.    We ALL have to DISCERN the truth of that event using only the eyes of faith in the special writings written by the earliest members of God's Church, in what became the New Testament (as compiled by God's Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit).

You need to use that exact same process of discernment using the eyes of faith when trying to determine the truth of the Church's doctrine of the Holy Eucharist.

I believe you and I can at least agree that we have to believe in Jesus Christ and in all the Truth He declared, right?

Now, imagine a person (named Icecold, say) who gets to the end of the road for himself (not trying to be harsh here), and he is brought to his own personal judgment.

He hears a voice say, "Icecold, why didn't you believe in Me, and ALL that I told you?"

Icecold: "When did I not believe you, Lord?"

Jesus says, "Icecold, do you remember this 'dialog'?"

When you, Icecold, read in My Scriptures, My Holy Written Word:    "I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."    John 6:51

You, Icecold, said: "No way!"

When My Scriptures plainly said:    So Jesus said to them,    "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever."    John 6:53-58

You, Icecold, said: "Not true!    I know better!"

When you, Icecold, read these words from My Scripture:    Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said,    "Take, eat; this is my body."    And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying,    "Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."    Matthew 26:26-28

You (Icecold) said:    "Not true at all!    That's not what it means!    I know better!"

When you, Icecold, read these words from My Scripture:    And as they were eating, he took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them, and said,    "Take; this is my body."    And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. And he said to them,    "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many."    Mark 14:22-24

You (Icecold) said: "No way!    Not true at all!    It couldn't POSSIBLY mean what it actually says!    I don't believe anything that I don't understand!    I know better!"

When you, Icecold, read these words from My Scripture:    And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying,    "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me."    And likewise the cup after supper, saying,    "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."    Luke 22:19-20

You (Icecold) said: "No way!   Not a chance!    Not true at all!    I know better!"

When you, Icecold, read these words from My Scripture:    For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said,    "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."    In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying,    "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."    For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.    1 Corinthians 11:23-29

You (Icecold) said:    "No way!   Not a chance!    Not true at all!    I know better!    I didn't discern any body!    I can only discern with knowledge, not with faith in the words of the Lord!"

Then the Lord says to Icecold: "..."

(What?)

626 posted on 07/29/2013 9:53:19 PM PDT by Heart-Rest (Good reading ==> | ncregister.com | catholic.com | ewtn.com | newadvent.org |)
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