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To: Iscool

Even the reformers...Luther, zwingali and Calvin all believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary...and argued it from the bible...ooops


111 posted on 07/22/2013 7:08:29 PM PDT by bike800
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To: bike800

Calvin was also instrumental in having Michael Servetus burned at the stake. Should we also believe that was a good thing? All three were also well indoctrinated by the Catholic Church so it’s not unreasonable to believe that they did retain some of the errors of the Catholic beliefs. Follow men and you will always end in error.


119 posted on 07/22/2013 7:25:26 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: bike800
Even the reformers...Luther, zwingali and Calvin all believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary...and argued it from the bible...ooops

I never read their arguments but I have read the bible...I'll stick with the bible...

161 posted on 07/22/2013 8:11:21 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: bike800; Iscool
Even the reformers...Luther, zwingali and Calvin all believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary...and argued it from the bible...ooops

I don't see any "oops" there. The Reformers argued for the "virgin birth" of Jesus because it was a critical sign of the Messiah and was how Jesus could be God and be born as a man without a sin nature. This doctrine was totally defended by Scripture. That Mary remained a virgin, however, is not anywhere mentioned in Scripture. Luther did not make a big deal out of the "perpetual" virginity of Mary and had this to say about people who used this a reason for glorifying her:

    While holding this belief, Luther will not have Mary’s perpetually virginity extolled. He condemns those who venerate this attribute, and notes that it exists only to bring forth the Messiah:

    Now just take a look at the perverse lauders of the mother of God. If you ask them why they hold so strongly to the virginity of Mary, they truly could not say. These stupid idolators do nothing more than to glorify only the mother of God; they extol her for her virginity and practically make a false deity of her. But Scripture does not praise this virginity at all for the sake of the mother; neither was she saved on account of her virginity. Indeed, cursed be this and every other virginity if it exists for its own sake, and accomplishes nothing better than its own profit and praise.

    The Spirit extols this virginity, however, because it was needful for the conceiving and bearing of this blessed fruit. Because of the corruption of our flesh, such blessed fruit could not come, except through a virgin. Thus this tender virginity existed in the service of others to the glory of God, not to its own glory.[48]

    Even in Luther’s acceptance of perpetual virginity, it was not to be worshipped as the attribute of a goddess. Luther points out that Mary fades from the biblical account after the birth, because the emphasis of the Scriptures are on her child: “For the prophet and the evangelist, and St. Paul as well, do not treat of this virgin beyond the point where they have from her that fruit for whose sake she is a virgin and everything else. After the child is born they dismiss the mother and speak not about her, what became of her, but only about her offspring.”[49] That Luther did not spend entire treatises defending perpetual virginity serves to show that what was important to him was not Mary’s lack of children, but rather the child she did give birth to. Throughout his career, he would minimize the emphasis on this Marian doctrine. http://tquid.sharpens.org/luther_mary1.htm#V


296 posted on 07/23/2013 10:29:51 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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