Posted on 07/14/2013 3:02:43 PM PDT by NYer
Nice try. I almost see your point but, no, the term "Living God" is part of a prepositional phrase to which the following reference to 'ground and pillar' refers. There is a comma after 'Living God'.
P.S. I am Orthodox, not Roman.
As do I. Invaluable contributions and truly appreciated.
Your opinion and your opinion only. -bg
Not just his, but any "Christian" should be seeking the answers to those questions. The sure signs of a cult are when you are teaching your followers NOT to seek truth. Human nature is to follow the leader...
BUT, Christ is the leader and His Holy Spirit is the guide. The ONLY intercessor is Christ Jesus and Mary was just a chosen vessel, and is no more "holy" than any other human today or ever!
Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns."
Nothing changes much!
Hmmm. You would ask that :-). I have been listening to a long series of podcasts on bishops in the church but I can’t remember the detail. I’ll try to find out and get back to you.
Thank God for the encouragement. He is worthy.
Picking a date in the past is not prophecy...
You’re really grasping at thin air. Carry on.
“Completely unScriptural. No need for a saint to do this. In fact the Scriptural revelation to Paul is that the Holy Spirit does this for us.”
The Holy Spirit helps us to pray. Prays besides us.
Scripture itself says that Prayer is efficacious and we are commanded to pray for one another.
Again, the root of the problem is that you don’t believe in the communion of saints, which is in the Apostle’s Creed.
“why would we want the saints to intercede for us?”
That’s a good question. Saints are our brothers and sisters, many of whom have suffered in similar ways as we did. They understand and the know what we are going through. They are also models for the faith whom we are called to emulate.
My patron is St. Hilary of Tours. Occasionally I will ask him to pray for me. More often I will ask St. Therese (who’s a wonderful and very holy lady), and Mary sometimes too.
“The answer is we wouldn’t because there is no need to.”
So your faith has a utilitarian ethos?
“Praying to the saints is a false belief”
Indeed, which is why Catholics don’t pray to Saints.
“puts others (some perceived saint) in front of God the Father.”
Some perceived saint. Is it not said by your side that all believers (save Catholics, natch), are saints?
“However, nowhere does it say anything about praying to a saint”
Again, something which Catholics do not do.
“Now, did Jesus say pray to the saints, or did He always say to pray to the Father? As in directly to the Father?”
Did Jesus say, “don’t ask the saints in heaven to pray for you?”
If not, why then do you believe this? Someone taught you this.
“asked a flesh and blood minister (prophet, priest, friend) to pray for them.”
So if intercession is permitted then I don’t see how intercession by the saints in heaven is forbidden. Arguing that the ‘Saints are dead’ is contrary to our hope in the resurrection of Christ and that the dead are not the dead, but the living. Christ himself says this!
“There is no reason”
Again, Catholics do not teach this.
“there is no need”
Again, a utilitarian ethos. This is the problem. You’re saying we should only do what is ‘needed’ without asking the question - how do you know what God wants? Are you God?
“it still doesn’t say pray for each other and ask some saint to pray also.”
Where does it say that one ceases praying for one another in heaven?
“We can pray directly to God the Father, and our only needed or directed intercession siteth on the Right Hand of God the Father in Heaven - the only begotten Son.”
Ok, great. You do that. what gives you the authority to demand that others do as you wish because you believe it’s ‘unnecessary’. Does God say it is unnecessary or do you say this?
“Praying to a saint or needing a Heavenly intercession other than Jesus is not Scriptural.”
There’s that word, again. A utilitarian ethos.
“In fact, it goes against Biblical teachings that Salvation and Heavenly intercession are through Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone.”
The bible does not actually say this. A mediator is not the same as an intercessor. This is yet another protestant interpolation.
“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”
I don’t see the word ‘intercession’ here anywhere.
“Christianity is not a chose your own adventure novel where you get to pick the wording and arrange things to mean what you want.”
Wise words from a protestant!
That name is used because that council created the canons for the previous Fifth and Sixth Ecumenical Councils.
No, I can't explain that further :-) Sorry.
I don’t believe the East ever had married bishops. Priests, yes, Bishops, no. :)
Clerical celibacy wasn’t standardized in the west until the Council of Elvira in the early 4th century. Prior to that, East and West would have had the same understanding regarding married priests and unmarried bishops.
Mixing paganism and Christianity is not to be supported.
You are being ridiculous!
They were called nothing but synogogues.
They were a continuation of the ancient worship of Yehova, now fulfilled by the effective sacrifice of the Lamb of Yehova.
If you desire to worship a lie, be my guest!
Scriptural support for that please. Book, chapter, verse.
Trullo concerned itself with clerical celibacy for priests and deacons. Not bishops. I just checked.
rejecting the council of Nicaea = not a christian.
Why would an unbeliever care about what the gospels write?
Hislop is absolutely correct.
He fabricated nothing.
You grasp at straws.
Read the prophets where it is all recorded. (I know how much catholics hate the word, especially Torah and Tanakh)
So Jesus expected Peter to act like Satan?
I don’t see anything special about 100 AD to warrant basing your entire position on it.
Absence of evidence!= evidence of absence.
Affirmation of the doctrine of communion of saints has been proven back to the 4th century, with documents existing confirming it’s practice.
No documents exist confirming your opinion prior to Luther.
“accept correction as discipline”.
Something else Jesus said.
That Peter was held to a higher standard of correction and rebuke is not evidence that he was of a lower status. Quite the opposite.
Do you consider yourself “consecrated to God”?
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