Posted on 07/14/2013 3:02:43 PM PDT by NYer
The dead presumably killed during the Tribulation?
Because Peter was the leader of the apostles?
Many have not been officially canonized.
Except for all those nasty books that aren’t the word of God in Luther’s abridged version.
Bernadette Soubirous
“The question I have for you - is if you sincerely believe that the children of God would not be left leaderless, how do you cross that 15 hundred year gap between Christ and Luther? I’m curious.”
Surely you aren’t suggesting there were no Christians outside of the Roman church before Luther’s biblical separation. I assure you from the time of Christ to Luther there were millions. If you aren’t aware of them perhaps it’s because the popes drenched the soil of Europe with so much of their blood. So it’s not surprising Rome has worked to extinguish their memory, particularly from those trapped in her apostasy. To this day Rome efforts to hide her sins, both of today and yesterday. We need look no further than the molestation scandal for proof that Rome still hides her many sins.
“And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.”
That word admiration connotes astonishment.
Is an all powerful God not all powerful enough to do it Himself, without the "help" of others?
That's right and to seek something more in the spiritual realm is to invite demonic activity.
“Are there any ‘living saints’?”
All born-again believers are “saints”, according to the Bible. When an epistle was written to a Christian church, it was written to “the saints who are in _____”. Sadly, many of the “saints” being prayed to today weren’t even born again.
The Bible strongly prohibits connecting with, or trying to connect with, the dead.
Now, THAT'S funny, coming from a Catholic.
Catholicism teaches all sorts of things that are not mentioned by name, specific wording of which Catholics approve, and yet when a non-Catholic believes something that is not specifically spelled out the way a Catholic wants it to be, then suddenly the Bible doesn't teach it all all but rather it's the non-Catholics own personal errant interpretation.
The hypocrisy abounds.
You’re missing the point. We aren’t ones saying that all HAS to be in the Bible. So, no, we’re not being hypocritical.
Hahaha...a kindergarten graduation certificate has more value than canonization.
Did the all-powerful God *have* to use a human vessel to come to Earth?
I think there are other examples where our all-powerful God chooses to enlist the help of others who are not all-powerful. He is all-powerful, but also humble.
My post did not deserve your belittling remark. You asked whether the Church said all popes are in Heaven. My response explained that it does not. I answered your question.
But perhaps that wasn’t the answer you were looking for. I’m guessing from your belittling response to me that you would much prefer if my response agreed with your incorrect assumption that the Church teaches that all popes are in Heaven.
Uh, I *think* it was JPII who ventured some acknowledgement of those past sins you speak towards. But it does seem that here on these pages, there can be from a few, instead of acknowledgement...some mixture of denial or justification, many times argued on the barest technical [wording] grounds.
It is frustrating, and does come across as less than honest. The shame of that, is that many of these same who justify or deny, are the very same people who most vociferously insist that it is the the RCC and none other, which is "the church", thus dragging the beauty of Christ again through the mud.
Instead of fully top-down hierarchical, presided over by men & "councils" of men, I say the original structure was meant to be much more horizontal. But for the sins of man, and the wickedness of the human heart, it would be so. Yet--- that sort of failing is not limited to the RCC.
What do we see continually referenced on these pages, but alleged "proof" that all should be centered at the Latin church alone --- since no one else [in their view] can be trusted?
"Just look at those sinners --- over there! We are not them". "This proves God is found only here!", if not the lesser version "God is only found over there just barely, when He is at all, and only lightly, not in fullness" they do seem to be saying.
How would they know what others experience with the Lord, by way of Spirit? They see some of their own number whom they like to think have it all together, so reassure themselves they are in the "right place" even as they themselves may not much hear His voice --- mistaking the "voice" of "the church" as being the very voice of God. That can be fully the way of the worst cults, AND THEY KNOW THAT! But somehow...think the corruption of the human heart will not contaminate themselves, or their church --- only all those others.
The double standards must cease. Eventually they will. When we are all passed from this world...
I (of course) did not say that He NEEDS to do that. He does not need ANYBODY to ever pray ANYTHING for that matter. (He knows everything we pray already.)
However, in His Sovereign, Holy Will, He CHOOSES to have us pray for things, and He CHOOSES to have certain things done through humans (such as writing the books of the Bible).
(You do believe that God chose human beings as instruments to physically write every single word in every single book in the Bible, don't you?)
God could have wrote those things directly Himself, or He could also have just imparted all that knowledge and spiritual wisdom to each of us directly by infusing it all into our hearts, or by some other means, but He CHOSE to make use of human beings to do that. (Do you approve of God's choice to use human beings as go-betweens to write the Bible for the rest of us human beings, even though HE did not really need to do that?)
Of course He is, just like He is powerful enough to write every single word in every single book in the Bible by Himself, or impart all that knowledge and wisdom in some other way, but He chose to use human beings as go-betweens to write those words and books of the Bible for other human beings. (See post #537.)
However, God freely chooses to use human beings as go-betweens with other human beings for lots of things, including physically writing every single word in the Bible.
(You do agree that God did actually, truly use human go-betweens to physically write every single word in every single book in the Bible, don't you?)
“Now, THAT’S funny, coming from a Catholic.”
We weren’t the ones who inserted ‘alone’, etc. Very often you’ll find protestants turning a something that is both/neither into either/or where it is entirely inappropriate. Scripture OR Tradition. Faith OR works,
“Surely you aren’t suggesting there were no Christians outside of the Roman church”
Surely you aren’t claiming they were protestant.
“If you aren’t aware of them perhaps it’s because the popes drenched the soil of Europe with so much of their blood.”
[[Citation needed]]
Were these the same popes of whom the first twenty five were martyred?
“So it’s not surprising Rome has worked to extinguish their memory”
Are you saying that Protestants are the modern Nestorians?
“We need look no further than the molestation scandal for proof that Rome still hides her many sins.”
Oh wow. Something nobody’s ever brought up. Unfortunately for you, molestation is actually less frequent in the Catholic church than in a secular environment (schools) or with pastors (since our standards are more stringent).
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