“The question I have for you - is if you sincerely believe that the children of God would not be left leaderless, how do you cross that 15 hundred year gap between Christ and Luther? I’m curious.”
Surely you aren’t suggesting there were no Christians outside of the Roman church before Luther’s biblical separation. I assure you from the time of Christ to Luther there were millions. If you aren’t aware of them perhaps it’s because the popes drenched the soil of Europe with so much of their blood. So it’s not surprising Rome has worked to extinguish their memory, particularly from those trapped in her apostasy. To this day Rome efforts to hide her sins, both of today and yesterday. We need look no further than the molestation scandal for proof that Rome still hides her many sins.
“And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.”
That word admiration connotes astonishment.
Uh, I *think* it was JPII who ventured some acknowledgement of those past sins you speak towards. But it does seem that here on these pages, there can be from a few, instead of acknowledgement...some mixture of denial or justification, many times argued on the barest technical [wording] grounds.
It is frustrating, and does come across as less than honest. The shame of that, is that many of these same who justify or deny, are the very same people who most vociferously insist that it is the the RCC and none other, which is "the church", thus dragging the beauty of Christ again through the mud.
Instead of fully top-down hierarchical, presided over by men & "councils" of men, I say the original structure was meant to be much more horizontal. But for the sins of man, and the wickedness of the human heart, it would be so. Yet--- that sort of failing is not limited to the RCC.
What do we see continually referenced on these pages, but alleged "proof" that all should be centered at the Latin church alone --- since no one else [in their view] can be trusted?
"Just look at those sinners --- over there! We are not them". "This proves God is found only here!", if not the lesser version "God is only found over there just barely, when He is at all, and only lightly, not in fullness" they do seem to be saying.
How would they know what others experience with the Lord, by way of Spirit? They see some of their own number whom they like to think have it all together, so reassure themselves they are in the "right place" even as they themselves may not much hear His voice --- mistaking the "voice" of "the church" as being the very voice of God. That can be fully the way of the worst cults, AND THEY KNOW THAT! But somehow...think the corruption of the human heart will not contaminate themselves, or their church --- only all those others.
The double standards must cease. Eventually they will. When we are all passed from this world...
“Surely you aren’t suggesting there were no Christians outside of the Roman church”
Surely you aren’t claiming they were protestant.
“If you aren’t aware of them perhaps it’s because the popes drenched the soil of Europe with so much of their blood.”
[[Citation needed]]
Were these the same popes of whom the first twenty five were martyred?
“So it’s not surprising Rome has worked to extinguish their memory”
Are you saying that Protestants are the modern Nestorians?
“We need look no further than the molestation scandal for proof that Rome still hides her many sins.”
Oh wow. Something nobody’s ever brought up. Unfortunately for you, molestation is actually less frequent in the Catholic church than in a secular environment (schools) or with pastors (since our standards are more stringent).