Posted on 05/31/2013 2:44:05 PM PDT by NYer
Do our Catholic children and most adults know what these images teach?
All of us know one of the elephants in the room of the Catholic Church. Our religious education programs are not handing on the essence of our Catholic Faith, our parents are befuddled about their role in handing on the faith and the materials we use are vapid or if good do not make an impression on young minds. We are afraid of asking for memorization and thus most don't remember anything they've learned about God and Church other than some niceties and feel good emotions.
I teach each class of our grades 1-6 (we don't have 7th or 8th) each Thursday, rotating classes from week to week. For the last two years I have used Baltimore Catechism #1 as my text book. It is wonderful to use with children and it is so simple yet has so much content. If Catholics, all Catholics, simply studied Baltimore Catechism #1, we would have very knowledgeable Catholics.
These past two years I've used Baltimore Catechism #2 with our adult religious program which we call Coffee and Conversation following our 9:30 AM Sunday Mass, which coincides with our CCD program which we call PREP (Parish Religious Education Program).
This #2 book has more content and is for middle school, but upper elementary school children must have been more capable of more serious content back when this book was formulated and used through the mid 1960's because it is a great book to use with adults and not childish at all. We all use this same book as a supplemental book for the RCIA because it is so clear, nobly simple and chocked full of content!
Yes, there are some adjustments that need to be made to some chapters, but not that many, in light of Vatican II and the new emphasis we have on certain aspects of Church that are not present in the Baltimore Catechism. But these are really minor.
What is more important though is that when the Baltimore Catechism was used through the mid 1960's it was basically the only book that was used for children in elementary and junior high school. It was used across the board in the USA thus uniting all Catholics in learning the same content. There was not, in other words, a cottage industry of competing publishing houses selling new books and different content each year.
The same thing has occurred with liturgical music, a cottage industry of big bucks has developed around the sale of new hymnals, missalettes and new music put on the open market for parishes to purchase. It is a money making scheme.
Why do our bishop allow this to happen in both liturgical music and parish catechesis? The business of selling stuff to parishes and making mega bucks off of it is a scandal that has not be addressed.
In the meantime, our liturgies suffer and become fragmented because every parish uses a different resource for liturgical music and the same is true of religious formation, everyone uses something different of differing quality or no quality at all.
Isn't it time to wake up and move forward with tried and true practices that were tossed out in favor of a consumerist's approach to our faith that has weakened our liturgies, our parishes and our individual Catholics?
Did they bow to him and kiss his ring finger? Did he forgive their sins? He was their spiritual mentor which led them to Christ. It would only be natural for his love for them to be nurturing like a father but did they address him as such? Did he ask them to?
Yeah, like how can the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost all be God, when God is indivisible?
Can you give an example of two opposing views that Catholics teach?
Is she had no sin, she was born sinless, death would have had no hold on her, and SHE could have saved mankind.
If she was born sinless, she didn’t and doesn’t need a savior.
She was only sinless because her savior preserved her from sin.
And so it goes around and around. The circular logic can make you dizzy if you let it.
“Yeah, we’ve been going back and forth about this ad nauseam. Mary is the exemption. Gabriel said she was “full of grace”.”
Actually, this is the first time we’ve gone over it.
There is no exception:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
All have sinned. Not “except Mary,” it’s all of humanity. If Paul believed Mary was sinless and an intercessor between us and an angry Christ, they probably would have mentioned it as often as your Popes do today.
What do you propose the phrase “full of grace” actually means, assuming it was an accurate translation? Does it mean that Mary was filled up with grace from God... and therefore this must mean she is sinless? Does it mean she was a gracious and kind person... which therefore makes her more righteous than every other gracious and kind person in the world? Does it mean she was highly favored? Upon what basis do you read “full of grace” as “sinless” when the scripture says “there is not a just man on Earth who does what is right, and sins not.” And again, in one of John’s epistle, “if we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
FYI, that’s the translation wrought from the Vulgate. The real phrase “full of grace” only occurs here:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
It is literally full “pleres” of grace “Charis.”
The phrase used in Luke 1:28 is the same one translated “made approved” in Eph1:6. Luke 30, two verses later, confirm this view:
Luk 1:30 .. “thou hast found favor with God.”
“heurisko” (found) “charis” (favor) with God.
Thank you for your opinion, but it really does not comport with fact. Grace, faith, works, belief, being born from above, and baptism are among a few of the many ways mentioned in Scripture. The opportunities and circumstances of each comprise an ever changing plan for Salvation unique to each of us. The notion that all one has to do is say the magic incantation to secure Salvation and to gain forgiveness of all sins, past, present and future, is itself the sin of presumption against hope.
Peace be with you
Romans 5:12-21 12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Jesus, as Mary’s savior, preserved Mary from original sin from the time of her conception. Nothing circular about that.
“they don’t merit a response.”
Keep in mind, I am not petty, and I am quite indifferent to your personal opinion of me and my arguments. What matters is whether or not you can answer them... which, you very rarely ever do. And for that I am thankful, since my concern isn’t for you, it’s for those reading.
Catholics tend to vote strongly democratic.
I’ve had practicing Catholics tell me to my face that they vote dem in spite of their stance on abortion because “Democrats are *for the poor*”.
Their words not mine.
So yes, they gave away their responsibility.
Catholics claim that the eucharist is changed into the literal flesh and blood of Jesus and yet the elements never appear or test anything other than wheat and wine.
Viola`, it’s a *mystery*.
You may post about Marys sinlessness and no “bodily death” all you want. I don’t believe you will convince anyone.
I promise, until you have a conversion of heart, I will rarely answer in a way you find acceptable.
The cut and paste opinions of web anti-Catholics and the parroted long in the tooth doctrines of the reformation will continue to be dismissed like they have for 500 years.
You think you’re convincing anyone?
That's like telling Ray Kroc; "I don't like hamburgers so no one will buy them". More than a billion already believe.
No, but I feel compelled to try.
Jesus said “THIS IS MY BODY” and “THIS IS MY BLOOD”. We believe Him, even if it looks like bread and wine. So did the Apostles.
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