Posted on 05/26/2013 1:56:19 PM PDT by NYer
Two groups of Catholics are directly impacted by the decision of the Boy Scouts of America to formally admit as scouts youth who profess a same-sex orientation, namely, Catholic sponsoring organizations and Catholic scouts and their families. As always (See Disclaimer no. 1 to the right), I speak only for myself in what follows.
Part One, whether Catholic organizations may sponsor Boy Scouts.
Preliminary points. First, the Church’s absolute rejection of homosexual acts and her description of same-sex attraction as objectively “disordered” (CCC 2357) is not subject to question among Catholics. Second, the Church calls on persons who experience same-sex attraction “to fulfill God’s will in their lives” (CCC 2358) and to practice chastity (CCC 2359) which, for them as for all unmarried persons, connotes complete continence (CCC 2349-2350). Third, the Church warns society to avoid “every sign of unjust discrimination” against those who experience same-sex attraction (CCC 2358).
Now, the policy adopted by the Boy Scouts states in pertinent part: “No youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.”
Immediate observations. First, the policy applies only to youth members (males aged 11 thru 17 and, I assume, single), not to adult leaders who, per the Supreme Court decision in Boy Scouts v. Dale (2000)—a case that I think was decided correctly—are excluded based on a same-sex orientation. Second, on its face the policy applies only to membership in the Boy Scouts and not necessarily to participation in all Boy Scout activities; intentionally or not, this narrow phrasing seems to leave open some questions about how a membership policy might be applied to reasonable concerns over participation in certain activities. Third, nothing in the new policy or in Boy Scout literature endorses or advocates the gay life style; in fact all members are prohibited from using the Boy Scouts to promote “any social or political position or agenda”.
These three points being noted, the revised policy may be scrutinized from a Catholic point-of-view as follows.
(1) Granted that the non-discrimination principle outlined in CCC 2358 rings platitudinously (for “unjust discrimination” is never licit!), if the principle therein means anything—and I think it does—it means that the burden of proof lies on those who would discriminate against persons experiencing same-sex attraction to justify that discrimination.
Now in some respects discrimination (e.g., refusing to recognize “same-sex marriage” or prohibiting the admission of homosexuals to seminary) can and should be defended among Catholics. But, that same-sex attraction itself (which is the only factor addressed by the policy), should bar membership (which is the only application of the policy) in a secular organization seems difficult to argue; to propose further that maintaining such a bar is a litmus test for Catholic sponsorship of an organization seems even less tenable. Consider: same-sex attraction, standing alone, does not prohibit one from being a fully initiated Catholic. To argue, therefore, that, say, a Catholic parish must hold a sponsored organization to a higher membership standard than it holds itself to is at best anomalous.
(2) An official statement accompanying the new policy “reinforces that Scouting is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether heterosexual or homosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting.” Such a statement, oft repeated, seems wholly in-line with sound Catholic teaching against sexual activity outside of marriage and stands in welcome contrast to the indifference toward premarital sex shown by some other youth organizations let alone to some group’s partnering with the likes of Planned Parenthood. Indeed, aside from youth programs expressly oriented toward chastity, I know of no other secular organization that so clearly declares all sexual conduct by its youth members to be contrary to its values as does the Boy Scouts.
In my opinion, these two points suffice to relieve Catholic organizations from concerns that their sponsorship of the Boy Scouts is, at least at present, incompatible with Church teaching on human sexuality.
Part Two, whether Catholic organizations or individuals may dissociate themselves from Boy Scouts without fear of giving bad example to others.
At one level, this one is easy: there is no obligation to sponsor or join Boy Scouts in the first place, so there is no objection to refraining from or cancelling sponsorship and/or membership in the Boy Scouts. But would such disassociation give “a sign” of unjust discrimination against homosexuals?
I think not.
My decade-long experience of Scouting (Eagle, 1975) was a healthy and entirely “sex-free” adventure. Part of the angst, even anger, that one sees in the wake of the recent Boy Scout decision is really, I suspect, distress over the fact that, now, the almost unique opportunity that the Boy Scouts offered—namely, space for boys to be boys (and not, as society increasingly treats them, as actual or prospective participants in sexually-tinged interactions)—seems compromised.
Scouting requires serious commitments of time, talent, and treasure. If Catholic sponsoring organizations and/or member families can’t conclude that the Boy Scouts are able (perhaps through no fault of their own) to deliver a youth program that actually operates within the parameters expressly (and I think defensibly) asserted by the Boy Scouts, then those Catholic organizations and families will likely decide that burdens of Boy Scout affiliation exceed the benefits.
But, unless and until that conclusion is demonstrated on the evidence (and not largely on predictions), and notwithstanding that some elements of the gay lobby are likely treating the Boy Scouts as pawns in their own wider projects, I think that Catholics may, and should, take the Boy Scouts at their word.
For now, at any rate.
Question,: How do you keep the belief in God clause in the oath and accept homo's? That is basically saying the church accepts homosexuality. There better be a line drawn somewhere and it better be quick. The Methodists have already bowed to Satan with homosexual marriage and other changes. I have been attacked to no end when suggesting here that Catholics are doing the same. Catholics will have to make a bold statement or just join in with other denominations like Presbyterians, Lutheran, Methodists, Unitarians, ect, in the dustbin of history. Accepting Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy's, Kerry and their ilk without shame has infected the governing of the Church. I've been saying for years now that the liberals are running the Church only to be flamed with some comment from a stray Bishop or Cardinal with some lonely Op-Ed somewhere in a local rag. There are local parishes that are still conservative, but that doesn't represent the whole church when you take into consideration the whole world. A French Catholic is much different than a West Texas Catholic. IMHO, we are outnumbered and dying a slow death. If you just look at the Catholics of South and Central America, they are more like Hugo Chavez than pope John Paul. The new pope must still be evaluated, but I fear he is an open socialist and will bend to the populist opinions of the day.
Yep. Dark days ahead. God will not be mocked....for long.
Thanks so much! Looks like I have some improtant reading to do.
I won’t even buy Girl Scout cookies because they went left in supporting the choice to kill a baby in the womb a long time ago.
So right Matt. Shortly, it will be upon us all.
May God bless you and yours Sir.
For Catholics, there is the Columbian Squires Organization-sponsored by the Knights of Columbus.
The "suits" at BSA National announced the results of their study groups in APR 2013 in that, at worst, they can expect to lose 13.5% of the membership. To them, that is acceptable collateral damage. While I share your sentiment about wanting to see a mass Exodus, it isn't going to happen. The only denominations that have stood up to shout down the BSA are (1) Southern Baptist Convention, (2) Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, (3) Assembly of God, and (4) Presbyterian Church in America.
... The Methodists have already bowed to Satan with homosexual marriage and other changes. ...
You need to get your facts correct. During 4/24-5/04/2012, the UMC held its quadrennial General Conference in Tampa, FL. Delegates voted by about 60 % for to 40 % against softening the language on homosexuality in The Book of Discipline. Delegates retained their denomination's stance that homosexual acts were "incompatible with Christian teaching”. There does appear to be a schism coming very soon in the UMC over homosexuality.
Catholics will have to make a bold statement or just join in with other denominations like Presbyterians, Lutheran, Methodists, Unitarians, ect, in the dustbin of history. ...
The Presbyterian Church-USA and Evangelical Lutheran Church in America both ordain homosexuals. They haven't adopted homosexual marriage, yet, but that is coming down the pike. But their are other sects within the Presbyterian and Lutheran Churches which are orthodox and holding the line against homosexuality. Yes, the Unitarians are totally lost over homosexuality. As for the Methodists, well, regarding BSA, they are, for the moment, in agreement with the Mormons and Catholics that they can continue in Scouting with this new membership rule.
Can you provide a source(s) for this info? If I had to guess, the "usual suspects" would be ...
1. Greater New York Councils - Manhattan
2. Mt. Diablo Silverado Council - CA
3. Los Angeles Area Council
4. Western Los Angeles Area Council
5. Silicon Valley Monterey Bay Council - CA
6. Northern Star Council - St. Paul, MN
7. Cradle of Liberty Council - Philadelphia
8. Baltimore Area Council - Baltimore
9. Boston Minuteman Council - Boston
A recently departed and dear friend and mentor had a saying, "If God's in it, it can't fail. If God's not in it, it can't stand."
I believe God gives us opportunities that we don't always recognize because of our tendencies to make snap moral judgements. I like the saying that was coined by Herbert Spencer:
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation”
Thank you, rmichaelj. I do know about the Squires, and they are an excellent organization. But...I always thought of them as more of a service organization, with little to no outdoor/scouting activities.
At least, that’s how it seems to me here on Long Island. I’ve never seen a Squires group go camping, for example, or wear any type of uniform. Do they do that sort of thing?
Regards,
Thanks. I hope we’re ready for stormy weather.
I agree -he is most definitely wrong! He is wrong many times though, this is but another example where he is errant. The lawyer is not a cleric nor a spokesman for the Church. His personal opinion is just an opinion and as valid as any others -his obedience to what the Church teaches is as much a requirement as is any others.
Note how he differentiate 'membership' with activities and as well 'membership' with leadership. WHY does he do this? LOL because he attempts to define a gray area that does not exist except in the theoretical domain he advances his opinion upon.
In other words as long as young boys are not left alone unsupervised with older 'homosexual' boys all is fine and as long as older 'homosexual' boys are not imposed upon young boys in private setting such as camping trips all is fine. Blah, blah, blah...
I am waiting for an email from a contact who has the information , but there are news reports on the following officially saying that they will defy the policy and admit adults;
— NYC council
— Abnaki / Pine Tree Council Maine
— Connecticut Yankee council
— Boston Minutemen
— Minnesota North Star
To me, it’s as bad as when the feminists set foot in McSorley’s.
When you receive it, please post it and/or private mail me. Thank you.
... but there are news reports on the following officially saying that they will defy the policy and admit adults; ...
— NYC council
— Abnaki / Pine Tree Council Maine My cousin's son is a Cub in this Council.
— Connecticut Yankee council
— Boston Minutemen
— Minnesota North Star
History repeating itself ... sharks smell blood in the water.
2001 - The Boston Minuteman Council executive board adopted a nondiscrimination policy which included sexual orientation. BSA National rejected it.
4/27/2001 - Nine BSA local councils submitted a resolution that would have allowed local councils to comply with local community nondiscrimination policies regarding homosexual persons to the BSA National Executive Committee. The resolution was formally presented to the BSA National Council at its annual business meeting in Boston on 6/01/2001.
April 27, 2001
To: The Resolutions Committee
Boy Scouts of America, National Council
1325 West Walnut Hill Lane
P.O. Box 152079
Irving, Texas, 75015-2079
Atten: Helen Rey
In our individual capacities as members of the National Council of the Boy Scouts of America, we hereby submit the attached resolution for consideration at the Annual Meeting of Boy Scouts of America on June 1, 2001. The first sentence of the resolution may be used as a brief description of its purpose.
Respectfully submitted,
Dick DeWolfe
President
Boston Minuteman Council
Rick Gables
President
West Los Angeles County Council
Lew Greenblatt
President
Chicago Area Council
John Harbison
President
Los Angeles Council
Mike Harrison
Past Chairman of the Board
Orange County Council, California
Tom Lynch
Chairman of the Board
Cradle of Liberty Council, Philadelphia
John McGillicuddy
President
Greater New York Councils
Wayne Moon
President
San Francisco Bay Area Council
TTom Morgan
resident
Viking Council, Minneapolis
RESOLVED, that the National Council of the Boy Scouts of America adopt a policy, substantially in the form set forth below, (i) stating that membership and leadership positions are open to persons regardless of their sexual orientation, subject to compliance with Scouting's standards of conduct, but (ii) recognizing that in selecting adult leaders, the Chartered Organization will also expect compliance with the requirements of the Chartered Organization for adult leadership positions in programs serving youth.
It was rejected at the 2002 annual National Council business meeting. On 6/10/2002, the Boston Minutemen Council announced that the MC for its fund raising dinner would be an openly gay radio talk show host.
When I get the list I will let you know. Our source is one of the folks who are working to form Faith Based Boys as an alternative.
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