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To: FourtySeven

“This is a perfectly valid point and one “GPH” seems to be missing but I’d also like to point to an even more basic point, one I believe should, at least for any open-minded lurker, make it clear that the “ability” to hear “simultaneous” prayers does not necessarily imply “omnipresence and/or “omnipotence””


It is not just Mary hearing but a few prayers at the same time. It’s Mary hearing every prayer made to her by every Catholic in the world, at the same time, in more than one place, in more than one language, by more than one person, every minute, every hour, and every year. You can’t just sit there and claim “Okay, she is multipresent, but she’s not OMNIPRESSENT!!!” or “Okay, she knows all the languages in the world, and the intimate details of each person’s life, but she’s not OMNISCIENT!” It’s like telling me that the Easter Bunny is real, but you don’t believe in it.

This line of reasoning is only valid for a person determined to cling to their fables and to deify a human spirit. Notice that not one of you have really come to terms with what it means to believe as you do. You simply downplay it absurdly, as if Mary is only hearing one or two people at the same time, who are sitting right next to her, instead of Mary existing in more than one place at one time.

“Those “in” heaven are not so constrained.”


All of this talk about people being omnipresent in heaven is simply your own invention. You have no real evidence for it, or even anything that suggests it beyond the necessity of making mental sense of the RCC’s fables. Furthermore, human beings who are alive aren’t in heaven. They’re on Earth. To hear the prayers, she must pass into our “dimension,” as you put it. Recall the point I made to Natural Law, before he punted and went straight for the insult. The angel Gabriel was not always present with Daniel. He was held up for some 20 or more days with the demonic “Prince” of that realm, and therefore could not meet with Daniel when he wished. If Gabriel is omnipresent because he is from heaven, then Gabriel could have been with both Daniel AND contending with the demon at the same exact time. Yet, that’s not what we see.

There simply is no evidence in the scripture, or anywhere, that supports the superstitions of the RCC. I for one will not tolerate, even for a moment, the idea of a human being sharing in the divine attributes, no matter the degree.


200 posted on 05/29/2013 12:41:38 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
"...in more than one language..."

It seems like all of your objections are countered by actually considering the Gifts of the Holy Spirit:

•The Word of Knowledge
•The Word of Wisdom
•The Gift of Prophecy
•The Gift of Faith
•The Gifts of Healings
•The Working of Miracles
•The Discerning of Spirits
•The Gift of Tongues
•The Interpretation of Tongues

Let's hear your proof-text that the gifts of the Holy Spirit do not and cannot apply to Mary the Mother of God.

Peace be with you

202 posted on 05/29/2013 12:50:29 PM PDT by Natural Law (Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Furthermore, human beings who are alive aren’t in heaven. They’re on Earth

This is also an important point to remember in my "explaination" maybe I should have made its importance clear.

People in heaven most certainly are alive and, as has been shown ad nauseum on this board, from Scripture and other sources, those in heaven are very much arguably "more alive" than we are since they are fully in Christ, much more so than we are (as we only see "darkly". Again this fact has been shown countless times conclusively so I'm not going to to repeat its construction here)

Suffice it to say, given they are more alive than us, it doesn't require omnipotence/ omnipresence/ omni-anything for them to hear our prayers, as its our prayers that "cross over" to their ears not the reverse.

The notion that those in heaven are more alive than us, and that they are outside of time is not unique to Cathoicism. It's not merely "invented" to "make sense of some RCC fantasy". These are concepts many theologians have deduced and reasoned for a variety of reasons not just for the apologetic.

204 posted on 05/29/2013 1:27:20 PM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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