Posted on 05/24/2013 2:25:17 AM PDT by DaveMSmith
LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - The Holy Father is full of surprises, born of true and faithful humility. On Wednesday he declared that all people, not just Catholics, are redeemed through Jesus, even atheists.
However, he did emphasize there was a catch. Those people must still do good. In fact, it is in doing good that they are led to the One who is the Source of all that is good. In essence he simply restated the hope of the Church that all come to know God, through His Son Jesus Christ.
Francis based his homily on the message of Christ to his disciples taken from the Gospel of Mark. Francis delivered his message by sharing a story of a Catholic who asked a priest if atheists were saved by Christ.
"They complain," Francis said, "If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good." He explained that Jesus corrected them, "Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good."
The disciples, Pope Francis explained, "were a little intolerant," closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that "those who do not have the truth, cannot do good." "This was wrong... Jesus broadens the horizon." Pope Francis said, "The root of this possibility of doing good - that we all have - is in creation."
"Even them, everyone, we all have the duty to do good, Pope Francis said on Vatican Radio.
"Just do good" was his challenge, "and we'll find a meeting point."
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...
Saul would not have become Paul without his past. He repented. Anyone can do likewise.
I find this very doubtful. To be an atheist today is to have rejected Christ, which is a sin isn’t it?
“Technically, I believe that is a pretty small subset of the non-believers.”
No, it includes all unbelievers:
Rev 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. (12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
There is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ:
Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
“Also, the word interpretted as “for ever and ever” does not necessarily mean what most people think when they read the phrase “for ever and ever”.”
No, for ever and ever is what it means.
After the crucifixion, he ‘preached the souls in prison’.
They were the people who’d died before He came.
“I agree with you.”
You agree together on the myth of human goodness. The truth is, mankind is totally depraved.
Rom 3:10-20 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (13) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: (14) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: (15) Their feet are swift to shed blood: (16) Destruction and misery are in their ways: (17) And the way of peace have they not known: (18) There is no fear of God before their eyes. (19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
There isn’t anyone who is good, neither Jew nor Greek. To hope to be saved by your works is the same thing as saying, from the biblical sense, that you intend to die by your inability to achieve the perfection required by God.
Mat_5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
This perfection doesn’t just refer to not sinning anymore, but also that all your “good” works are perfect “as your Father in heaven is perfect.” But all your righteousness, in the sight of God, is nothing but foulness.
Isa_64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
The bottom line is that the only one who is actually good... is God Himself.
Mar_10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Therefore salvation is by grace through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. In fact, faith is itself the gift of God, for no one can believe who is not chosen by God.
She’s dead.
But, reinCARnation is a FACT in these days of metal recycling!
Narrow definition of 'atheist'.
Muslims have 'rejected' Christ.
Wiccans have 'rejected' Christ.
Buddhists have 'rejected' Christ.
MORMONs have added to Christ.
“After the crucifixion, he ‘preached the souls in prison’.
They were the people who’d died before He came.”
1Pe 3:18-20 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The spirits “in prison” here is in reference to the antediluvians, which “sometime were disobedient... in the days of Noah...” NOT to those who died before the time of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, the word “preached” is not euangelizo, but is ekeruxen, which is a more general proclamation as opposed to Gospel preaching. The meaning is that Christ “preached” to those who (now, but not then) are spirits in prison, whom Christ with “longsuffering... waited in the days of Noah.” In other words, the preaching mentioned in the previous verse, is the “longsuffering” wait of God in the latter verse that took place in the days of Noah.
So sorry.
Thank you.
So...are you saying those who died before He came are doomed or are you supporting the ‘everybody who is “good” eventually makes it to Heaven’ theory?
You posted post 76 in defense of atheism.
To: Tanniker Smith
I’ve heard atheist here on FR say that they can do good, without believing in God.
I don’t see why not.
76 posted on 5/24/2013 6:03:48 AM by stuartcr
“So...are you saying those who died before He came are doomed or are you supporting the ‘everybody who is “good” eventually makes it to Heaven’ theory?”
One does not need to go into “spirit prison” to preach to the dead to save them. After all, the antediluvians could have repented and believed with Noah on the one true God. Just like any Gentile could have believed in the God of Abraham, and of Moses, and of Jacob, for “salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22). Outside of the religion of Moses, up until the time of Christ, there was no salvation. None of the Pagans or atheists were ever justified in believing in their idols.
Rom 1:20-21 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
And today, there is no salvation outside of Christ, and those who do not believe are still “without excuse.”
Actually, ‘perfect’ in Matt 5:48 is the Greek telios. It is better translated ‘Complete in God’ which is a mystical or spiritual state. Has nothing to do with ‘works’.
yep... Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Good post.
Thanks.
Did he really say this?
Amazing if he did...whew
Exactly if he said this
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