Posted on 05/10/2013 10:47:38 AM PDT by NYer
Obviously, the wine and the bread are symbolic. That's the plain sense of the text, ESPECIALLY when one considers the Jewish audience to whom it was addressed. Passover (the occasion of the Last Supper) is a meal of symbols. Sadly, there isn't one Catholic in 10,000 that has a clue about this. The magisterium just doesn't value context very much.
If someone were able to travel back in time and encounter Jesus incarnate that same DNA test would not be able to detect the divine. There is a significant difference between a substance and a property. What you are concentrating on is the properties of the physical and ignoring the substance of the divine.
Peace be with you
Thanks for posting that. Just discussed some very familiar parts of it with my wife and kids. In the words of my youngest, “Wow, and we still use it today.”
Do you accept and believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? Let's rephrase your question: "If some irreverent and disrespectful idiot swiped DNA from Christ's robe (or some other article left behind) and subjected it to DNA testing, and it turned out to be that of a human being, would you lose your faith? I certainly hope not. Following His resurrection, Jesus appeared to several disciples but they did not recognize Him. Take Mark 16:12, for example, the Road to Emmaus: After this he appeared in another form to two of them walking along on their way to the country.
The scientific method would conclude that Jesus was just a man but by faith, we know that He is the Son of God. We believe this because He said so. At the Last Supper, Jesus instituted the Eucharist. He said This IS my Body; This IS my Blood. DO THIS in remembrance of me.. At each and every consecration of the mass, the priest, acting in persona Christi, follows that command. The appearance of bread and wine remain. These are called the "accidents" but the substance is completely transformed into the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. We know this because Jesus told us so.
Here is another example: we do not see our reason, yet we have reason. We do not see our intelligence and we have it. In a word: we do not see our soul and yet it exists and we see its effects, because we can speak, think and make decisions, etc. Nor do we see an electric current, for example, yet we see that it exists; when we flip a switch, we see lights. Therefore, we do not see the very deepest things, those that really sustain life and the world, but we can see and feel their effects. This is also true for electricity; we do not see the electric current but we see the light.
Let's consider the Bible. To the visible eye, it is nothing more that black and red ink on white pages bound up into a book. What is it we believe? With eyes of faith, we believe the Bible is the Word of God.
The entire sermon was posted. It is now no longer necessary for you to tell me or anyone else what St. Augustine said and really meant. Those who seek the truth can read it for themselves.
Peace be to you
Ok, but when your mind starts making words transubstantiate into other words that are’nt there, I’m still going to highlight the juciest parts of the collection to fix ya. Just a PSA if you will. I’m helpful like that.
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and CANNOT UNDERSTAND them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." 1 Cor 2:14
So stop following them
Show me where I said I'm following - 'Mary', a pope, 'Peter' dead saints, etc, etc, etc, etc. ALL WORLDLY. If you can't keep it honest, don't reply. Catholics are obviously ashamed or their 'worldly' religion - so they project.
and start believing in what Jesus left us - the Catholic Church - and not whatever mallfront church or oddball house 'church' happens to catch your eye.
Jesus already rebuked what you follow - "Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.'" Matt 15:9.
The CC already has the soul of catholics so be prepared for "Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from Me, you evildoers!" Matt 7:23
what Jesus left us - the Catholic Church - That statement clearly shows someone who doesn't KNOW Jesus nor BELIEVES what Jesus says.
JESUS The WORD is The Final Authority!
We must have had some different tutoring on the English language. I posted quotes from Augustine in which he claimed he did believe in what we now call Transubstatiation. This is fascinating, to witness this exchange.
“We must have had some different tutoring on the English language.”
Yes, in Rome, they teach you to translate the meaning of words based on Papal decree. Thus, words like “signified” or phrases like “Is the body of Christ consumed?... Perish the thought!” or other logical contradictions are put through a Romish algorithm where they transubstantiate into different words entirely.
The problem with the programming though is that once the Catholic hits a logical error that its processor cannot handle, it goes blue screen and just repeats the same thing it said before.
Jesus was speaking of the Jews, not the Apostles. It would help if you get it straight.
JESUS The WORD is The Final Authority!
Very good. I might advise you to stop substituting your own word for His. The Bible is clear. The Church was instituted by God. There were a number of churches that deviated from Catholic teachings almost immediately. 10 points if you can name them.
Christians believe that the Body and Blood of Christ are real and have done so for 2000 years with the instruction from Christ - read the NT. Protestants and various newbies think that they can reinvent Christianity according to the god in their own mirror.
” Protestants and various newbies”
Blah blah blah. Let me know when the Roman apologetics newbie can make a coherent argument that doesn’t involve just ignoring what everyone says to assert that words like “signify” and “Is the body of Christ consumed?... Perish the thought!” mean the exact opposite of what they actually mean.
Just keep falling back on the tired worn out stuff you’ve only told us a hundred other times you had nothing other to say.
And as for your implications that we aren’t Christians. I’ll rest in Christ’s promises and not worry about the RCC that would like to shove its big fat nose between me and God. Thanks for the offer, though.
It is you who needs to get it straight. Catholicism is man made teachings. Praying to/for the dead, rosary, idolatry with the Queen of Heaven - the list is endless.
The Bible is clear.
Yet, your papa says his church needs to explain it to their flock. And that's why catholicism has their own bible, the catechism. Just like mormons and muslims, do.
I might advise you to stop substituting your own word for His.
I'll advise you not to ignore God's Word. I gave you Scripture and you say it's for 'another'. How's that for ignoring Scripture. When did 'man' die for you that you feel the need to bow to 'man' and obey Rome and their soldiers?
"Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the Truth." 1 Tim 4:3
"Whoever does God's will is My brother and sister and mother." Mark 3:35
How worldly - game playing....There were a number of churches that deviated from Catholic teachings almost immediately. 10 points if you can name them.
Things will get serious to you when it's too late.
*****So the magisterium is your god. As God does NOT share His glory with anyone. “I am the LORD: that is My name: and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise to graven images****
What a ridiculous statement.
Extending that charge to its logical conclusion, anyone who believes they have the fullness of truth and the most authentic interpretation of Scripture has made themselves their own God.
Maybe that explains why non Catholics are so vehemently opposed to the church’s authority, they don’t want competition for their own divinity.
“As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
“I will give you the keys to the Kingdom.”
“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
“And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”
“And when the chiefe shepheard shall appeare, ye shall receiue a crowne of glory that fadeth not away”
“Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”
****We trust in JESUS ALONE! His Word is the FINAL authority.*****
LOL, good one. See above:)
Honestly, haven’t any of you got anything worth more than a good laugh? Don’t get me wrong, I like a good laugh, it’s just the material was old the first dozen times I heard it.
The reason for the catechism is simple, heresies have abounded since the beginning and Christians who want peace in the knowledge that the authority Jesus granted to the Church is a true one and any garbage a non Catholic tries to feed them about the church can be easily refuted all in one place.
“I’m all yours Mary”
Jesus sure had no problem giving all of Himself to her, why should I or any other Christian? She is the model of a true disciple. Devotion and consecration to her, who bore my Savior, only adds to my love for Him.
Jesus loved her, Jesus chose her for Himself, Jesus trusted her with His very being. I trust Him and His judgement of her.
When I want to know the mind of Jesus, I go to HIS Word - lest 'man' corrupts what He says..
"Then He looked at those seated in a circle around Him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother." Mark 3:34,35
"While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, His mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to Him. Someone told Him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to You.” Matt 12:47,48
Jesus replied to him, “Who is My mother, and who are My brothers?” Pointing to His disciples, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers. For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”" Matt 12:49-50
Catholics have a worldly perception of His mother because they are taught by the worldly secular church. In spite of being told "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;" - they trust 'man' and what they say. They ignore Jesus' teachings on that - and this one as well..
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts." Is 55:9
'Man/evil' did a good job at bringing down Jesus to a worldly level for their subjects - as they have many suckers who follow them.
Then just snicker.
We DO get new lurkers from time to time that have NOT heard it.
Yes, I do fell better KNOWING that Jesus wants for me to share His crown of glory,
Mary is His mother, first on earth and now in heaven. She listened to God’s word, held it close in her heart and gave over to Him her entire being.
Mary obeyed the will of God perfectly. I consider no other human to be more worthy of emulating.
Will do:)
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