Posted on 04/23/2013 9:37:23 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
In a segment titled “God and Hitler,” Gordon Robertson (son of Rev. Pat Robertson), hosted a discussion on the Catholic Church’s response to Hitler. Several errors of fact were made.
1) It is wrong to paint Hitler as a Catholic. Though he was baptized, he excommunicated himself, latae sententiae, when he sought, in his words, to “crush [the Catholic Church] like a toad.” He made good on his pledge by persecuting 8,000 priests, over 500 of whom were killed in concentration camps. He also sought to assassinate the pope.
2) The 1933 Nazi-Vatican Concordat was not a show of solidarity. As Rabbi David Dalin has shown, it was a protective measure designed to protect German Catholics from persecution. In fact, at least 34 letters of protest were sent from the Vatican to the Nazis between 1933 and 1937, culminating in a 1937 encyclical that condemned Nazi violations of the Concordat and its racial ideology. It was smuggled out of Italy and distributed on Palm Sunday to Catholics in Germany. Nothing like this happened in Protestant churches in Germany.
3) It is not true that Hitler met resistance from Protestants alone. There are 800,000 trees planted in Israel that represent the 800,000 Jews saved by the Catholic Church. None have been planted as a tribute to Protestants. During the war, the New York Times twice said the Church was “a lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent”; Albert Einstein also singled out the Church during the war. After the war, Golda Meir praised the work of the Church, as did the ADL, the World Jewish Congress, and scores of other Jewish organizations.
4) It is factually wrong to say the Vatican archives have “never been seen.” Many scholars have had access. As for Pope Pius XII being “Hitler’s Pope,” it should be noted that John Cornwell, the ex-seminarian who originated this term, retracted it years ago. So why does “The 700 Club” continue to cite it?
Nice try; but it won't fly...
Is it possible?
It's my own opinion that if these people made the same comments about Jews as they do Catholics, they would have been banned long ago:
Do those people REALLY speak about the PEOPLE or the 'isms'?
I am avoiding nothing. My theology is not forced to conform to the definitions of words taught by my 4th grade English teacher, neither should yours. I asked what your definition of "believe" is and you responded with a deflecting characterization of my question. That is avoidance.
Since St. John used the term "belive" nearly 100 times in his Gospel alone, it is obviously a term of great importance whose meaning must be fully understood in order to understand the Gospel. It cannot simply mean acknowledging something to be factual or something we are generally in agreement with. By that definition even Satan and his angels and demons believe in Jesus, but are obviously not saved.
So I ask you again, what does believe mean and how can we learn it from Scripture alone?
Peace be with you
Said by Jesus about bread; if I am not mistaken.
Some religious organizations tend to ignore the fact that Jesus already HAD a body at the time these words were uttered.
I'll have to remember this one!
"If you disagree with me; that proves you are wrong."
Remember; it's not about YOU.
Surely; as your role as teacher to the uninformed; you can supply an answer that is NOT formed from your opinion (even though that is quite valuable) but from the infallible source: The Magisterium.
Now then; back to Scripture...
John 6:28-29
A swiiinnnnggggg and a miss. Strike two. You better choke up, square your stance and protect the plate for the next one.
Of course I can arrive at a meaning not formed from my opinions, but like you said, this is not about me. My question is how anyone, absent any teaching authority, go about determining what the word translated into English as believe means without differing from each other and the original intent.
Peace be with you
#323
Over centuries and generations languages and circumstances change and someone must answer when every person who truly seeks to know the Word inevitably asks; "What did Jesus mean?".
Petard: meet Hoist.
John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
.
(Psssst... it ain't about ME; ither.)
In John 6, which preceded the institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper, Jesus said He was the bread come down from heaven and that His body was indeed REAL food.
I know, it was difficult for many of the Jews and Disciples who abandoned Him in Capernaum too. It requires acting on Faith. Faith gives us a new power of the intellect to accept what God reveals simply because God revealed it. It is an ability to believe, up to the point of giving our lives, in spite of threats, pressures and reasons to the contrary. That word, which we casually translate as believe is pisteuo.
Peace be with you
Of course.
It’s already forgotten.
The point was not over any specific teaching, doctrine or dogma. Ironically, another Freeper was disputing my point that there are disputes.
Peace be with you
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
The flesh is no help at all.
The WORDS Jesus spoke are spirit. The WORDS Jesus spoke are life.
The WORDS; not the flesh which doesn't help at all.
Jesus uses two completely different phrases through out the Gospels. When referring to mankind and this world he says "the flesh". When referring to the Eucharist and the divine he says "my flesh". I would encourage you to study the instances and meanings for a better understanding of the Gospels.
Peace be to you
Don't eat blood. The life is in the blood.
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 26 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. 27 Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 10 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. 12 Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
13 “Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. 14 For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 12 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 “‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, 17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.’
19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
22Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, 23 with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Indeed, we later see Paul rebukes Peter because of his lack of understanding the truths of God's economy. Peter was nothing but a disciple like the others, called by Jesus to accompany and spread the Gospel He seemed to have failed that one. He denied Jesus at Gethsemane and later tried to make the Gentiles conform to Jewish law.
I have complete peace, brought by God's Holy Spirit who lives in me. Tirades and repeated false truths do nothing to spread anything but division, and certainly nothing you have posted to me brings light to the conversation...
Galatians 2: 11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.
19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
NL, I have sent a private FReepmail to you...
Tirades and repeated false truths do nothing to spread anything but division, and certainly nothing you have posted to me brings light to the conversation...
Jesus' flesh wasn't any different than any other human's flesh...And if not, he wasn't fully human then, was he...
Yes; He did.
HE also said:
Mark 7:27-2927 “First let the children eat all they want,” he told her, “for it is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”
28 “Lord,” she replied, “even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.”
29 Then he told her, “For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left your daughter.”
Even a woman - a Greek, Syrophenician one - could recognize that Jesus' words had deeper meaning than what was on the surface.
Otherwise, He had just proclaimed non-Jews to be REAL dogs.
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