The Newbie flamewar provocation is NOT THE WORK OF GOD. It is ZOT.

Doctrinal Catechism ^ | 19th century | R E V.   S T E P H E N    K E E N A N.

[Vermont Crank]

Dear muawiyah. And, the Spanish celebrated the First Thanksgiving in America (with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, of course) long before the Pilgrims did.

[Vermont Crank]

Dear Pan-Yan Is Baptista were only so lucky to achieve purgatory :)

[Vermont Crank]

Dear Fatboy, Au contraire

Deuteronomy 17:

When there shall be found among you within any of thy gates, which the Lord thy God shall give thee, man or woman that do evil in the sight of the Lord thy God, and transgress his covenant,

3 So as to go and serve strange gods, and adore them, the sun and the moon, and all the host of heaven, which I have not commanded:

4 And this is told thee, and hearing it thou hast inquired diligently, (Inquisition) and found it to be true, and that the abomination is committed in Israel:

5 Thou shalt bring forth the man or the woman, who have committed that most wicked thing, to the gates of thy city, and they shall be stoned.

We Christian Catholics were just, once again, following the Bible and Tradition. But, different times call for different responses. We are a kinder and gentler Church now :) But, let's not neglect Moses in this discussion. As the First Inquisitor, in two days he killed more people than all the various Catholic Inquisitions combined. Moses ordered FAR MORE killed.

Exodus 32

27 And he said to them: Thus saith the Lord God of Israel: Put every man his sword upon his thigh: go, and return from gate to gate through the midst of the camp, and let every man kill his brother, and friend, and neighbour. 28 And the sons of Levi did according to the words of Moses, and there were slain that day about three and twenty thousand men.

Numbers 25

And Moses said to the judges of Israel: Let every man kill his neighbours, that have been initiated to Beelphegor.

9 And there were slain four and twenty thousand men

Numbers 31

And Moses being angry with the chief officers of the army, the tribunes, and the centurions that were come from the battle, 15 Said: Why have you saved the women? 16 Are not these they, that deceived the children of Israel by the counsel of Balaam, and made you transgress against the Lord by the sin of Phogor, for which also the people was punished?

17 Therefore kill all that are of the male sex, even of the children: and put to death the women, that have carnally known men.

18 But the girls, and all the women that are virgins save for yourselves:

All we were doing in The Inquisitions was following the example of Moses - well, except for the killing of kids and saving the virgin women for our own selves :)

[Vermont Crank]

That is a lie, as the church actually began in schism from those who sat in the very seat of Moses, and the same apostle who wrote the above stated, "For there must be also heresies [schisms] among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Dear Daniel. You do not seem to understand that there has always been only one religion and that one religion has God as its author and whose Dogmas, Morals and Worship were slowly revealed over time until all of the attributes of the one true religion were perfected when, in the fullness of time, The Word took flesh and established His universal Church

That is to say, religion has always only been one because that Bond with God was founded on the necessary and unchangeable relationship twixt God and man as established by Our Triune God

I know what I write and/or post appears to make you angry but the truth divides; always.

My motivation for writing and posting is that outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation and I desire that even my objective enemies attain unto Salvation

[Vermont Crank]

Dear Mort man. Saul became Pau after he repented and converted to catholicism.

Luther's trajectory was precisely in the opposite direction; that is, he did not come into the Catholic Church , he left it

[Vermont Crank]

Religion means bond with God, so, I would hope you have a religion

[boatbums]

Luther could have solved his problems by going to his superiors. rather than being a rebel.

I have known you in the past to be a reasonable and honest person. I have been reading the Letters of Luther located at http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2005/10/letters-of-martin-luther.html lately, and it may surprise some people unfamiliar with the history of Martin Luther that he most certainly DID go to his superiors and had no intention of being a "rebel". He tried for YEARS to do so. Sadly, it was the politics of his day added to the stubbornness, duplicity and depravity of many that prevented a resolution to the concerns he brought up. I recommend anyone interested in this period of time and the results that play out even in our time to read Luther's letters. I just may change a few minds.

[boatbums]

Perhaps you are not familiar with the term “sowing discord among brethren”. You may want to look it up because, of all the possible things in this world, it is one of only seven things that Scripture says the Lord HATES.

[ArrogantBustard]

Perhaps you are not familiar with the term “sowing discord among brethren”. You may want to look it up because, of all the possible things in this world, it is one of only seven things that Scripture says the Lord HATES.

I would hope to see that admonition directed toward the various Protestant apologists on this forum who "sow discord among brethren".

[muawiyah]

Actually, the Catholic (and probably Jewish) Spanish celebrated A thanksgiving in 1598 at Santa Fe ~ virtually on the same day Protestant Bretons celebrated A thanksgiving in 1598 at Bar Harbor Maine. They came under a French flag.

Even earlier, some Moslem Turks at a Spanish POW camp in South Carolina celebrated a similar 'thansgiving' called Ramadan, and Serbo-Croatian POWs celebrated a variety of Eastern Saint's Days, etc. at the same POW camp. They are the people who gave rise to the idea in Europe that you could find Serbo-Croatians all up and down the American coast and they lived with the Indians and would do translation.

Joseph Smith was selected as Governor for Jamestown colony precisely because he'd fought in the wars against the Turks, became a POW, and learned Serbian or Turkish himself.

The pilgrims were latecomers but quite possibly the FIRST legal arrivees at the Protestant Reserve King Philippe carved out of his vast Spanish holdings in North America. See what he was up to by reading all the codicils in the Treaty of London, 1604, which he, not the Brits, cramed down everybody else's throat!

[roamer_1]

the very Church He established

You presume too much.

[muawiyah]

you are misrepresenting the doctrines regarding an amnesty from oblivion.

[boatbums]

I luv you, dude!!!

[ArrogantBustard]

Sir,

I apologize for my rather rude introduction.

Having read numerous of your posts, I believe you to be honest and sincere in your efforts.

Again, welcome to FR.

[roamer_1]

So a believer in 200 AD could not have possibly had recourse to "recall from Scripture".

That's a real problem for the sola scriptura believer. I have seen it danced around, but never answered.

Yeshua proved Himself perfectly from the Old Testament, and His disciples likewise. If you cannot, then maybe you are reading it wrong. ; )

[muawiyah]

English wasn't all that ready for translation into until about the mid 1500s anyway ~ it, like all other languages, is a creole, and along the way from being a creole with many active elements of grammer from more than one language, to the time it becomes a true independent language, many mistakes are made ~ adjustements are made for them, and time moves on until everybody is on the same page.

My first foreign language was called Old West Gothic ~ or roughly King Canute's first language. I believe he, as an educated man in his time, could read and write latin however.

[MortMan]

Luther left the Roman Catholic church over a number of very real issues - including the egregious changing of money into papal writs of absolution.

BTW - Thank you for proving my point regarding the ad hominem attacks on Luther in the article. Saul was converted through actions of God. Saul was a very corrupt and evil man. Paul was a leader of the church.

And yet this article claims that because Luther wasn’t perfect, he could not have been inspired by God.

The Roman Catholic church is not the key to salvation. Trajectory toward or away from it is of no relevance. Christ himself said that “no man comes to the father but through me” - not mentioning the Roman Catholic church, or any church.

The article is an ad hominem hatefest against someone who was willing to stand up to significant corruption in a very powerful organization. I’m sure the author feels they are standing up for God and what is right - but their method of doing so is far from christian. They attack, impugn, and slant history to suit their needs.

[daniel1212]

Dear Daniel. You do not seem to understand that there has always been only one religion and that one religion has God as its author, and whose Dogmas, Morals and Worship were slowly revealed over time until all of the attributes of the one true religion were perfected when, in the fullness of time, The Word took flesh and established His universal Church.

I do understand that RCs typically engage in argument by assertion, and your delusion premise that Rome is the perfect church is nothing more than that. Now answer the question i asked at the end of my last post .

My motivation for writing and posting is that outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation and I desire that even my objective enemies attain unto Salvation

And my motivation for writing is because salvation is found by genuine contrite repentance and faith directly in the Lord Jesus to save by His sinless shed blood, which is not the same thing as what Rome fosters (except for a relative few who see thru the trappings). And i know, as i was manifestly born again as a RC, and remained as a weekly one for 6 years, seeking to serve God. Thus the Lord led me out.

Now you must be aware that RCs have different interpretations of what salvationn only thru the the Catholic Church means (formal member) so do you agree with the RC statements i proved, or the Catechism you posted form? What brand of RC are you (SSPX. Sedevacantist?)

Later

[muawiyah]

So what ~ nobody cares ~ do you realize these days that almost nobody knows why Queen Mary is referred to as "bloody mary" ~ or who her husband was, other than that he was King of England (at least while he was married to her).

If Elzbet killed some people she was well advised to do so ~ the former KIng of England sent a couple of Armadas after her and her peeps ~ an embroglio that was not resolved until his son took over the country IN 1598 ~ now, tell me, really, why do you imagine all those folks in 1598 on all sides everywhere were celebrating a Thanksgiving if not for the death of Philippe I/II and Elzbet?

BTW, Philippe I/II and his Catholic League foray against the Turkish Navy was praised highly by Protestants, Catholics and Reformers ~ and the followup battles in Europe against the Turks drew men from the ranks of Protestants ~ e.g. Captain John Smith!

During those rough times your religious affiliation was more politics than anything else. Leave it at that.

[Alex Murphy]

LOL. Will have to take myself to the woodshed.

You could always "mash the abuse button" on yourself, but then you'd also accuse yourself of bias/favoritism for responding too slowly/quickly/harshly/gently.