Posted on 04/11/2013 6:40:37 AM PDT by Vermont Crank
You might as well join the party! All hands on deck (to give the noOb disrupter thread another bump).
That's funny!
You mean to tell us that Peter or Paul or the Old Testament prophets or Moses or David were NEVER cited by:
Clement of Rome (30-100) ?
Justin Martyr (100-165)?
Hippolytus (170-235)?
Origen (185-251)?
Bishop Melito (2nd century)?
Ignatius of Antioch (died 120)?
Irenaeus (115-202)?
Eusebius of Caesarea (260-340)?
Cyprian (200-258)?
Basil (330-379)?
Clement of Alexandria (155-220)?
Cyril of Jerusalem (310-386)?
Gregory Nazianzen (330-389)?
Gregory of Nyssa (330-395)?
Hilary of Poitiers (315-367)?
Lactantius (240-320)?
Tertullian (late 2nd cent-early 3rd cent)?
Bishop Polycarp (69-156)?
Theophilus (2nd cent)?
Or the following who were born between 345 - 360? men like Jerome, Rufinus, John Chrysostom, Augustine, & John Cassian...?????
Irenaeus wrote about Matthew's & John's Gospel in 180.
Clement of Alexandria wrote about Mark's Gospel in 195.
Tertullian wrote about John, Mark, Luke, and Matthew's Gospel in 207.
Origen said the gospels are four in 228 and 248.
Victorinus said the gospels are four in 280, as did Methodius in 290.
Clement of Rome was already referencing one of Paul's epistles having been written "under the inspiration of the Spirit" as early as 96 & had mentioned at least eight New Testament books by 95.
The early church fathers (97-180) quoted from 28 of the 29 New Testament books. In fact, EVERY New Testament book was referenced pre-150 except Philemon and 3 John. The 170 A.D. Muratorian Canon had only excluded Hebrews, James, and 3 John. [And if Catholics want to make that an issue, they should talk...given that their first canonization of the Apocrypha came in 1546...and they didn't canonize dead saints until 995]
The Holy Spirit canonized the Bible; the Church merely received it -- reaffirming what the early church Fathers had already recognized in their writings as authoritative [for example, Hippolytus recognized 22 books his writings...he lived 170-235]
Irenaeus cited 21 of these books...Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John, acknowledged 15 books.
Allow me to give an example here. Let's say all we had were the writings of the early church fathers...but no Bible.
Would it be possible to cull together the New Testament from what they wrote within 150-200 years from the time of Christ?
Answer? Yes...Well, yes, except minus 11 verses of the New Testament.
IOW, we can re-construct the entire New Testament -- except for 11 verses -- just thru the writings of the earlier church fathers who lived within 200 years of Christ!!!!
Source: (Norm) Geisler & Nix
The Church did not originate the Bible. Its inspiration is divine, not ecclesiastical. It stands or falls because of its relationship to God, not to the Church. Moreover, any official action of the Church is late. We do not find it before the last part of the fourth century. But by then the canon had to all its intents and purposes been decided.
And...
The oral and written apostolic witness to Christ was that from which the primitive Church drew its life. The process by which the written form of that witness rose to increasing prominence and was gradually defined in the canonical understanding of the Church was both natural and spontaneous. The process was, to a great extent, underway before the Christian community was aware of its implications. From this perspective the sharp reaction of the Fathers to Marcion and the Gnostics is to be seen, not as a de novo selection of an alternative canon, but rather as a making explicit of what had always been implicit in the life of the Church.
emphasis added
There’s the kaboom.
St. Justin Martyr describes worship in the early Church ...
Question: When Scott Hahn researched extensively the early Church fathers, what happened?
Mormonism is flat-out apostasy.
Let's be sure we have our terminology straight.
Wow, that is a pretty cool piece of trivia, I gotta admit (assuming its true, which I don't have too much of a problem believing it is)
Chapter?
Verse?
Very cool that you recognize the authority of the God inspired Holy Fathers, who were part of the one holy catholic and apostolic church.
Dear re-tread..........
Been here, done this before.....( I have a long memory)
I expect you will get the same result this time as well....
But you are welcome to keep trying.....
Having an argument with yourself is not a good sign... :o)
LOL. Will have to take myself to the woodshed.
All Protestants recognize the authority of the disciples & many of the early church fathers.
The question isn't their "authority" -- it's their authority over what & over whom?
As I said, the Holy Spirit inspired the Bible; the Holy Spirit canonized the Bible; what kind of "authority" is needed to cite the Bible and to receive it as God's gift to the Church and to the world?
That’s all you have to say?
Asking for chapter and verse? If you are going somewhere with that line of questioning, don’t be coy.
I think I know where it’s going. How about checking the cited sources at the link provided? The specific answers you seek are likely to have been touched upon at those sources.
Dear muawiyah. That used to be true but now we search for opportunities to surrender
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