Posted on 03/28/2013 1:58:30 PM PDT by NYer
Edited on 03/28/2013 7:47:59 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
Pope Francis kisses the foot of a young person at a detention facility on Holy Thursday 2013. Credit: CTV.
Vatican City, Mar 28, 2013 / 12:20 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis recalled for around 40 young detainees how Jesus washed the disciples’ feet and said that he would willingly do the same for them because he is called to serve.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...
Yes, yes and yes. The Apostolic See is the seat that controls the liturgy. Don’t see how this can be argued much.
Calm down. It said "cardinals".
True, women cannot be ordained to Holy Orders --- deacon, priest, or bishop --- because of the nuptial meaning of priesthood. (Like Matrimony, Holy Orders is a Sacrament in which the sexually embodied person is part of the Sacramental Sign.)
However, the role of "Cardinal" is not a Sacrament and is a historically malleable administrative title, not dating back to the New Testament or the teaching of the Apostles, but adopted later for the sensible purpose of handling papal succession with a modicum of efficiency.
Any pope would have the authority to change the way his successor is picked. He could say "Let's pick one by casting lots." Or "Let's have an electronic election on the Internet with all the clergy of the Diocese of Rome as electors." He could even say, "As usual, all the papabili have to be Catholic men (this is actually non-negotiable) but the electors will all be women."
Not saying he would, not in a million years, but I'm saying he "could".
Bizarre but true.
Such is papal authority. Such is Catholicism.
Fr AJ says:But Father, but Father, what if our Holy Father Francis washes women’s feet in his Holy Thursday prison Mass – does that change the law?
Fr AJ says: if our Holy Father Francis washes women’s feet … does that change the law?
Certainly not. All that would do is alter our opinion of him.
"The mere fact that a Pope does something doesn't mean that is is, by that act, changing the law. The law has to be duly written and promulgated in the proper way."
I agree with that, but like a newborn, a new law must crawl before it walks. Evidently this was a crawl but I have no idea if it will walk.
But he is not, for well or for ill, the competent ecclesiastical authority in the Diocese of Rome.
W5
Boy, was I overjoyed to hear that!Excellent, that's awesome! And, yes, I'll pray for your older priest. I guess we're really spoiled here. We've got a Sunday TLM not more than 7 minutes away door-to-door, and two others (daily too!) about 35-40 minutes away.
Yeah, we haven’t had an Easter or Christmas Mass in many years so it’s quite the notable event.
Immediately after the last Christmas Mass (2005), our two girls (grandkids) were baptized.
The same priest I talked to on the phone earlier today would have conducted the sacrament a couple weeks previous to that, but he was getting absent minded and wasn’t prepared.
Amazingly, his memory seems better now.
Now the girls are almost old enough to be Confirmed.
The significance of Holy Thursday (institution of the Eucharist and priesthood)
Holy Thursday: The God who Washes Feet
Holy Thursday and the washing of the feet [Mandatum]
The Hunt for the Fourth Cup
Great and Holy Thursday [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Maundy Thursday, Holy Thursday, Shire Thursday
Holy Thursday
Maundy Thursday
HOMILIES PREACHED BY FATHER ALTIER ON HOLY THURSDAY IN 2004 AND 2005.
Paths to Rome: Washing of Feet on Holy Thursday
Washing of the Feet on Holy Thursday And More on Days of Abstinence
Reflections for Maundy Thursday: The Carrying of the Cross
Past Not Over (Why Passover is the most widely observed holiday.)
The Chrism Mass
Celebration of a Family Seder Meal
Washing the Feet of Men Only on Holy Thursday
ALTAR OF REPOSE - Catholic Liturgy for Maundy Thursday
Catholic Caucus: Maundy (Holy) Thursday
The Fourth Cup: The Sacrament of the Eucharist [Holy Thursday] [Passover]
Holy Thursday - When the moon is full
And I empathize with his love of the poor and downtrodden. I've been on a number of mission trips to Haiti and the first world western nations don't have a clue about the reality of poverty in our own back yard. My oldest son just returned from a spring break "mission trip" with the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in the Bronx and gained a new perspective on the reality of poverty in our own country (as well as some of the sinful structures that cause and prolong it.)
But ultimately the goal of all apostolic work is the salvation of souls. Our charitable efforts mean nothing if that is not at its core.
So this humble-man-of-the-streets pope can do whatever he pleases just as long as in the end it contributes to the ultimate salvation of the greatst number of souls. And evangelization requires humility.
It also requires Christian unity. We've wasted 50 years trying to be ecumenical with the Protestants, and its gained us nothing except the watering down and protestantizing of our liturgy and theology. We should have never tried to build ecumenical relations with the Protestants when it came at the expense of our ecumenical relations with Orthodoxy. Because when we disregard and belittle our own liturgical traditions and Traditions (i.e., protrstantize them) it negatively effects our ecumenical relations with the East.
Protestantism is eventually going to cease to exist and what remains of it more and more will become an enemy of the orthodoxy of Eastern and Western Christianity.
These little things Pope Francis is doing are being watched very closely by the only ecumenical partners we have in the world that truly matter, the Orthodox. And if this disregard for important gender issues that directly relate to things like the institution of the all male priesthood on Holy Thirsday continues, it will set back our common work and common cause with the Orthodox. And the longer that is set back and set aside, the longer we fail to work towards the salvation of the greatest number of souls.
Because that ultimate goal, the salvation of the greatest number of souls, will never happen until East and West are once more ONE.
That's not going to happen soon if the East sees this Holy Father as disrespecting the efforts of Benedict XVI to restore our liturgical traditions that we gutted following Vatican II or playing fast and lose with the liturgy most closely tied to the institution of the all male priesthood on Holy Thursday, an all male priesthood common to both East and West and shared only by these true Churches as delineated in Dominus Iesus.
It always comes back to Fatima, and the reunion with the East is an integral part of the Fatima plan for peace and the final evangelization.
"I am worried by the Blessed Virgin's messages to Lucy of Fatima. This persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul. … I hear all around me innovators who wish to dismantle the Sacred Chapel, destroy the universal flame of the Church, reject Her ornaments and make Her feel remorse for Her historical past."- Msgr. Eugene Pacelli, the future Pope Pius XII
Orthodox ears perked up when
1. Pope emphasized his title as Bishop of Rome.
and
2. He gave Easter eggs after washing feet.
I am sure you will find Orthodox who will be displeased with the females foot washing. If that comes up in dialogue, one would hope that the Pope's thinking behind it could be laid out to satisfaction.
Matthew 10:16
"I am sending you out like sheep surrounded by wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."
Your perspective is valuable to me, and I thank you for your time and care in setting it forth so thoughtfully.
Quickly scan the highlights of Papa Francisco's life and you may begin to suspect, as I do, that this man --- with the shrewdness of a serpent and the innocence of a dove ---is a savvy operator and a saint.
Look:
Everyone knows a priest has to be a male. He is going to show that he has to be a man.
None of this indicates rupture from the Great Tradition or a break with his predecessors. Bergoglio is Ratzingerian. In fact, I think he and Papa Ratzi are have their heads together on this. Bergoglio consciously gave Ratzinger the tiara in 2005 when (according to Il Stampa) he gave a short, emotional speech begging the Cardinals not to vote for him on, they say, the fifth ballot. This is just my hypothesis, but I think, on his part, Ratzi wanted Bergoglio to have a crack at being the next pope, and B16's abdication was the only timely way to do it.
Alfred Xuereb, B16's aide, the one who always accompanied him on his trips, was appointed on Day One as Jorge's private secretary. And he is not the only liaison between F1 and B16. They are not "co-popes," and yet...
Ecumenism to the East? Jorge enthusiastically went out of his way, early in his priesthood, to learn the celebrate the Byzantine Liturgy. He is under the patronage of Mary, Untier of Knots. He was Prelate for Eastern Catholics in Argentina, AND had Patriarch Bartholomew at his installation, -- forget about 'the first time in 1,000 years,' this was the first time in history. He's been doing metanias to his Brethren the Patriarchs for decades. That his favorite title is simply "Bishop of Rome"--- you think that doesn't make Orthodox eyes sparkle? I hear the Abbas are saying "Axios!"
Keep praying. Christ's chief shepherd on earth and his flock are still surrounded by wolves --- some of them, wolves in shepherd's clothing. The game is serious; the stakes couldn't be higher; but honest to God, Papa Francisco is playing a cool, cool hand.
That is the very verse from the Gospel that came to my mind when I saw Pope Francis’s big, “Bring it on!” smile. He doesn’t need to sweat the small stuff, because he believes in the Gospel and believes it’s really the “Good News” we all need.
Yes Christ washed the feet of his apostles. Not women and not pagans. The Pope selected a female and a Muslim. Why?
The primary argument for an all male priesthood us that Christ only chose men as His apostles. Its the same reason men are chosen for the washing of the feet. The Pope has moved away from this tradition n a very public fashion. It is unsettling.
Nicely stated.
I thought the Pope had bad knees; that that was the reason he doesn't genuflect when he consecrates the Body and Blood of Christ?
I disagree with you on the foot-washing issue because foot-washing is a sacramental, not a Sacrament, and not ontologially connected to the institution of he priesthood at all. In fact, it was only restored to the Holy Thursday liturgy within our lifetime (well, mine: I was born in 1951, and foot-washing became part of the Triduum--- and even then, only an optional part --- in 1955.)
So Pope Francis is not changing the Great Tradition of the Millennia; he's pastorally modifying a 20th century rubric. And doing it lawfully. Lawfully?? Well, answer me this: Who is the competent ecclesiastic authority concerning liturgical norms for the Diocese of Rome?
The people who wrote the GIRM are his advisors, and his ecclesiastical subjects. I am fairly suire any canonist would tell you the same.
Mlizzy, I loved the column by Jimmy Akin.
And pogkdan, you may find this interesting:
I am not casting your concerns completely aside. I would be biting my nails up to the elbows if Pope Francis were a clown-mass liberal, a Liberation Theology Marxist, a liturgial ignoramus, a clerical self-aggrandizer or a dingbat. But he's none of that. He's a Ratzinger Protégé and one who is invested by the Holy Spirit with the authority of his office.
That authority doesn't make him impeccable. He's capable of gaffes, errors of judgment, and worse. But it does give him the jurisdiction at least, to modify the rubrics for a recently-instituted sacramental, within his own diocese.
This will work out. Pray and watch.
I am not casting your concerns completely aside. I would be biting my nails up to the elbows if Pope Francis were a clown-mass liberal, a Liberation Theology Marxist, a liturgial ignoramus, a clerical self-aggrandizer or a dingbat. But he's none of that.Did you see the YouTube of Pope Francis [then a cardinal] conducting a Mass with liturgical puppets? If so, what did you think about that?
I didn’t see that. Puppets? (Wince.) I may bite a nail over this. Was this a one-off thing? You have a link?
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