Posted on 03/21/2013 2:30:00 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Before he became Pope Francis, the Argentine cardinal’s doctrine would have excluded Vice President Joe Biden and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi from Communion. Father Shenan J. Boquet president of Human Life International explains:
While we cannot know what is truly in someone’s heart, all too often political or other high-profile figures who profess to be members of the Catholic faith give rise to scandal when they publicly promote intrinsic evils such as abortion, euthanasia, the redefinition of marriage, and contraception–several of which have been championed by Vice President Biden and Rep. Pelosi throughout their political careers.
As Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis, taught in the 2007 ‘Aparecida Document,’ the responsibility of legislators, heads of governments to not receive Holy Communion while engaged in “deeds or words against the commandments, particularly when abortion, euthanasia, and other grave crimes against life and family are encouraged” is a very serious one......
(Excerpt) Read more at theothermccain.com ...
(I am not Catholic, so I do not fully understand excommunication)
However, it appears that the Pope has made it clear, support for abortion is grievous enough to deny communion, it would also seem to follow excommunication.
IF this pope is as conservative as some are saying, THEN it should be imperative that he would deal with these miscreants accordingly
They just took communion at the Vatican this week, so they are probably pretty safe.
Absolutely, and I’m disgusted that it didn’t happen. All it shows is that these two creeps pushed their thumbs in all Catholics’ eyes . . . and they’re probably still laughing.
In light of this week's news, the spinmeisters are already hard at work saying that no one at the Vatican knew who they were amongst all the visiting dignitaries who were also offered Communion, and anyway it's okay because the Pope didn't personally give them the Eucharist himself.
Related threads:
New Pope: No Communion for Pro-Abortion Politicians
Pope Francis I clear on denying Communion to those who facilitate in abortion
Despite abortion views, Biden, Pelosi receive communion in Vatican Mass [Catholic Caucus]
Does anyone have any pictures of Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi receiving communion?
Pro-abortion Biden and Pelosi receive communion, but not from Pope at inaugural Mass
Will Pope Francis fulfill Benedict's legacy on abortion and Communion?
Biden and Pelosi’s “In Your Face” to Pope Francis
That being said: I am evangelical...and it doesn't matter whether you are RCC, Evangelical or Mainline Protestant...we ALL have those people within our midst and within our pastoral heirarchy...and I despise them all. There are just as many people within Protestant/Evangelical circles who hold the "pro-LIFE" stance but their knees get weak around power...and they tolerate Jezabel within their midst and wouldn't even dream of following 1 Cor 5 and separating that person from them.
I once had lunch with Nick Lampson. He knew I was a preacher and was being real chatty. I could tell he was looking for a dim "in-road" to the "faith" vote in the district he was carpet-bagging in (his 3rd or 4th now). I looked at him in the eye and told him I wouldn't let him...or ANY politician...not even George Bush (this was in 2004) into my pulpit unless he was there to preach Christ and Him crucified...and that NO politician, R or D, would ever have my support if they held to the pro-choice stance, whether by voice or vote (including electing a pro-choice speaker)...and I would publically condemn anyone who HAS that opinion. It shows that one had no moral compass...and the last thing we need in DC are people whose moral compass' are broke.
They are not in communion with the Catholic Church and they are already excommunicated. They have already excommunicated themselves by their behavior.
Excommunicated Catholics are still Catholics and remain bound by obligations such as attending Mass, even though they are barred from receiving the Eucharist and from taking an active part in the liturgy (reading, bringing the offerings, etc.). However, their communion with the Church is considered gravely impaired. In spite of that, they are urged to retain a relationship with the Church, as the goal is to encourage them to repent and return to active participation in it.
The man is BRAND NEW in the job. Maybe wait six months or a year to see where he’s headed.
In the words of Joe Biden that would be a.... Oh nevermind...
Do you consider his thirty-two years as a Jesuit priest, and twelve years as a Cardinal, to have left him unprepared for the job?
It’s sickening.
But I shouldn’t have expected anything other than business as usual.
No more than any other Cardinal Archbishop, I suppose. Just like a governorship or senate seat should prepare one for the presidency, it really doesn’t. because it’s a whole new ballgame.
See my #9.
At the very least their respective bishops should explain why they haven’t been denied the sacraments.
rules, rules ~ always those ticky tacky rules used to excuse miscreants miscreanting ~ of course they knew where Biden and Pelosi were ~ surrounded with 75 heavily armed Secret Service agents
Pope Francis didn’t give communion, but the hypocritical witch Pelosi got in line anyway and received communion, just like good little hypocrites do every at Mass. She knows exactly what’s she’s doing. She could care less.
The Pope and his office knew they were coming and he knew about their attempted slam on the sacrament. The Communion issuing priests could easily have been made aware of what troublemakers might show up with instructions on how to deal with them. Instead Biden and Pelosi were allowed to just come in and turn the service into a public mockery.
To me, it bodes very ill for this Pope's ultimate sincerity on this issue. He sure had none to begin with.
Simply, excommunication means being obliged not to receive Communion.
ANYBODY who commits a "mortal sin" is obliged not to receive communion (except in an emergency) unless he goes to confession and is absolved.
Some deeds are singled out. Having or procuring an abortion,for example, makes you excommunicated.
Here's one place where canon law is different from what we're familiar with. In such a case you are excommunicated latae sententiae -- automatically. You know what you did, you know the law (theoretically) so there's no need for a formal inquiry and declaration.
But you can also be officially declared excommunicated. That would be different. So if somebody says, "anyone who advocates or requires abortion is excommunicate," or even if a bishop, say the Bishop of San Francisco, asks a politician into his office and says,"You know, you really should not receive communion," it's not official. It is on the individual, and the divine penalty is on him too.
Also, there are misdeeds which automatically excommunicate and which require the Holy See (the pope or his agents) to lift the excommunication. A priest who breaks the seal of the confessional can only be readmitted to communion by the Holy See.
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The way the canons are written is unusual. The relevant canon, 912, says
Can. 912 Any baptised person who is not forbidden by law may and must be admitted to holy communion.SO that's like the default position. A minister of Holy Communion must assume, unless he KNOWS otherwise, that the person in front of him "may and must" receive.
SO, unless it's official, the minister has to assume that, however unlikely it may be, the person in front of him went to confession and was readmitted to the sacrament before he stood there and said, "Amen."
I don't know the official procedures for declaring someone excommunicate AND declaring the lifting of that status as "reserved." But it would take some sort of formal declaration not only that the person was excommunicated but that the excommunication could not be lifted by some random confessor. THEN the minister could deny the sacrament.
One way to look at this is that the canons bend over backwards to make provision for God's acting mercifully in the life of the sinner, and also that they are based on the idea that God knows what hes doing even when we don't.
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