What This Protestant Pastor Would Like to See in the New Pope

Religion Forum, FR | 11 Mar 13 | Xzins

[xzins]

First, let me acknowledge that I'm an outsider, that I don't have a vote, that it can easily be argued that outsider opinions simply don't matter, and that I don't even begin to approach any kind of expert knowledge regarding the Roman Catholic Church.

I am an ordained Methodist Elder with 33 years of experience under my belt. I have completed a career as a military chaplain with the US Army, and that gives me working experience with Catholic chaplains in which we all operated as a team supporting one another and helping one another. It was a willing cooperation, and the camaraderie was real, blessed, and cherished by me. This also applies to all of the other denominational chaplains with whom I worked. I learned so much from them, and the times and the missions are precious memories to me.

That is what qualifies me, I think, to at least state what I'd like to see in the next Pope.

I want a true believer in real Christian Unity. I understand theologians will get in on the discussion now to dissect "Christian Unity", but I'm speaking of reality. What is reality? Reality teaches us that there are a host of denominations all professing an historic, Trinitarian, real faith in the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ.

My experience as a military chaplain with other Christians has affected my own understanding of Jesus' words in John 17: "22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

I cannot escape that Jesus is saying that when the world sees the unity of Christians it will know that He was sent by the Father, and that the Father loves both the Son and the followers of the Son. This is seen so clearly in the reverse: when they see discord, disunity, disarray, then it easy for the world to dismiss us, the Father, and the Son. They say, "Those people are always fighting each other; who wants to be a part of that?"

I so admire the unbroken history of the Roman Church. In itself it is a testimony of unity, and that unity is one of the evangelism strengths of the Catholic Church. I admire so many of the historic figures of Catholicism, I admire Catholicism's insistence on life and on the natural family, and I must admit that I admire many current Catholics. Not to dismiss the great names, but these would all be people whose paths have crossed mine: family, friends, and colleagues.

So, Father Dick, Father Jim, and Father George, I remember deployments, coordinated services, shared times, conferences and simply going out for dinner with the family. We weren't exactly the same, but we had a unity of effort and of friendship that, in Christ, left me with memories that shall not fade and left others with the impression that we were on the same team.

Christian Unity: We lift our prayer to the Lord.

[dartuser]

The first 16 verses of Ephesians 4 demonstrate that the basis of true Christian unity is correct doctrine.

With the ecumenical push to ignore doctrinal differences for the sake of unity ... that unity would be merely for show ... and I'm not sure exactly what those who are calling for it hope to attain.

Only the Lord Jesus can bring unity ... and like most things ... it won't happen until His return in glory.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Phlap, you are mistaken about the Catholic Church. We have an appreciation for other Christian communities, and acknowledge that they, too, have elements of goodness and value, and enjoy blessings which come from Christ and which lead to Him

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (Link):

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."

"Christ's Spirit uses these , whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

What the Catholic Church believes can be easily verified by going to the Catechism. It's always advisable to do that rather than offering negative, unfounded opinions which tend to sow discord.

Thanks.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Oops -- typo --- I dropped a couple of ords which are actually a key phrase, right in the middle. Here's the whole quote again:

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

I have to disagree with the supposed “continuity” of the Catholic Church’s history. I’ve seen quotes from supposed early Popes denying the primacy of Peter and other important dogmas of the Catholic church, which allegedly had always existed without controversy. I also have a problem with the Catholics on their works-righteousness, and I’m always troubled to see the Pope standing side by side representatives of non-Christian religions.

[raybbr]

Don’t we already have this, as much as possible, with recognition of trinitarian baptism, after Vat II?

Perhaps. But, don't try to allow your sons to receive Communion in a Catholic church even though they've been receiving it for years in a Episcopalian church...

[xzins]

You are talking about the continuity of leadership. I’m talking about the continuity of the body.

[BlatherNaut]

Christian Unity: We lift our prayer to the Lord.

12. Before the whole world let all Christians confess their faith in the triune God, one and three in the incarnate Son of God, our Redeemer and Lord. United in their efforts, and with mutual respect, let them bear witness to our common hope which does not play us false.

DECREE ON ECUMENISM - UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

[xzins]

See these Christians how they love each other

That is another gem that comes out of that passage. Thank you.

Also, and I love this one, also from John 17: When the world sees that unity and love, it is so shocking, so unique, so other-worldly, that in amazement their mind jumps to "whatever the source of that is, I want some of it."

John 17:23b "Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." World will know...you...

Our unity would prove God.

(Which is probably why the enemy fights so hard to foment disunity.)

[Doulos1]

I would like to see the pope buy a Bible.

[xzins]

Has he gotten his others for free???

[ArrogantBustard]

I’d like to see a Pope that follows the truth fiercely enough to get rid of the homos/pedophiles,

Not to discount the considerable work done in that regard under JPII and more so under BXVI ... I think you'll find that 99.999999% of faithful Catholics very much want to be rid of the creeps, poofters, lezbos, and other pervs. The public schools can have them ...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Will the new pope do it though?

[Mrs. Don-o]

"The oprimacy of Peter" is a phrase that could elicit a lot of different meanings: that is, primacy in the sense of administration; or of honor; or of jurisdiction; or the authority to discipline; or his relation to an ecumenical council; or his relation to canon law; etc. etc.

You would have to distinguish just what this "primacy" meant, how it was supposed to operate; at what time; in what place; in what manner; in how far it a supposed to extend; and what were its limits.

A pope does not have the authority, for instance, to change the matter of a sacrament; or to negate or rescind a doctrine of the faith; or to contradict Scripture.

You'd have to nail down what as meant, before you could conclude that a pope had denied exactly that "primacy" which the Church affirms.

As for works-righteousness: we wouldn't offer a perspective on that other than what you could find in the Epistle of St James.

[ArrogantBustard]

We will see.

I am confident that he will continue to head in the right direction.

I am also confident that no matter what he does, some folks will complain that he's not "doing enough" and others will accuse him of being a tyrant and a dictator.

I would ask all faithful Christians, regardless of denomination, to pray that the Holy Spirit guide the Cardinals in their election, that the Cardinals heed His guidance, and that the new Pope faithfully and fearlessly follows GOD'S will.

[D-fendr]

don't try to allow your sons to receive Communion in a Catholic church even though they've been receiving it for years in a Episcopalian church...

Do they understand and believe in the real presence in the Holy Eucharist? Can you say how old they are and what are the circumstances?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“I would ask all faithful Christians, regardless of denomination, to pray that the Holy Spirit guide the Cardinals in their election, that the Cardinals heed His guidance, and that the new Pope faithfully and fearlessly follows GOD’S will.”

I will pray, but given the insider politics, horsetrading, etc. that goes into the vote, it will have to truly be a miracle - since many do not seem to want the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Guess that’s what we want. A real miracle.

[raybbr]

Do they understand and believe in the real presence in the Holy Eucharist? Can you say how old they are and what are the circumstances?

Oliver was 7 when the Catholic priest took the host from him in church. I went to the Catholic church because I was raised Catholic but our Episcopal church had no service that day.

My son received the Host and stood waiting for the chalice to dip the Host in as we do in the Episcopal church. The priest came running and told me he was too young. I told him that he had been receiving Communion for some time but he wouldn't believe me.

We teach them all about the meaning of the bread and wine. Does any child of 7, even after First Communion classes, truly understand the consecration? I know I didn't when I made my First Communion at 6 but I went to the classes and answered the questions.

Too bad. I sometimes would like to go back to the Catholic church and then something like this happens.

[D-fendr]

>>>My son received the Host and stood waiting for the chalice to dip the Host in as we do in the Episcopal church.

I think I see the problem.

Perhaps if you saw someone in Faith Information at the Church and talked to them about coming back.

thanks for your reply.

[raybbr]

I think I see the problem. Perhaps if you saw someone in Faith Information at the Church and talked to them about coming back. thanks for your reply.

Than YOU for not attacking me. Too often on Catholic threads I feel attacked simply because I am trying to raise my sons in a Christian church other than a Catholic church. It's frustrating and it strengthens my conviction to stay away. Your response is a refreshing change.

[ArrogantBustard]

I will pray,

Thank you.