Posted on 03/10/2013 11:58:35 AM PDT by patlin
There has been a widespread and growing 'deadly cancer' in the Christian church as of late and that 'cancer' is the pulpits profusely proclaiming that anyone who wishes to do 'JUST AS' Jesus did and to walk in the same manner as Jesus did, those who choose this path have fallen out of grace and are claimed to have joined a cult. So is this true?
In his March 5, 2013, Mike Hoggard vehemently shouted at the top of his lungs during his radio broadcast that the 4th Commandment of God was nailed to the cross. Now mind you, this is the ONE Commandment of God that contains the 'sign/mark" of His Covenant with all mankind that dates back to the seventh day of creation. So could the Jesus that Hoggard preaches be the true Messiah that never spoke against or did anything in disobedience to God the Father? I would say without a doubt, NO, Mike Hoggard is not proclaiming the true Messiah that Moses and the Prophets wrote about but a different messiah and a different gospel and here is why.
Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people, ...6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. ... 10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
Mike Hoggard claims to be a watchman but teaches that His seventh day Sabbath is not for all mankind and those that claim it is are heretics and members of some cult. So what else do the Prophets have to say of His Sabbath as being valid for ALL mankind?
Eze 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them (Rm 10:5). 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.1 between them and Me, to know that I am יהוה who sets them apart. Footnote: 1See Ex. 31:13-17.
Eze 20:23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; 24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols. 25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live1. Footnote: 1Ps. 81:12, Isa. 30:28, Acts 7:42, Rom. 1:24-28, 2 Thess. 2:11.
Isa 66:19 "And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. ... 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
So we see that it was NOT prophesied that the Sabbath would be nailed to anything, but rather it will be restored in all its glory as it was in the beginning. So did Jesus of Nazareth speak to the continuation of the Father's perpetual and everlasting seventh day Sabbath for all mankind? Why yes Jesus of Nazareth certainly did.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. ... 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 2 And because iniquity (lawlessness / transgression against the Law of God) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. ... 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the SABBATH DAY: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
So as this false prophet Mike Hoggard claims that his Jesus nailed the 4th Commandment to the cross and that we no longer are bound by this burdensome law, but as we can see, the true Jesus of Nazareth of the King James bible tells us just the opposite of what false prophet Mike Hoggard prophesies and that the true Jesus will be expecting us to keep and honor the 4th Commandment because as a disciple, one who imitates and emulates the Master, if one is a true disciple of Jesus, then one will joyfully do as Jesus did and not call ANY command of the Father burdensome.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous (burdensome).
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them (Ez 20:11). 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden (too hard, too burdensome) from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
interestingly enough, Hoggard did quote from Paul about making void the Law of God, but then in the same breath he denied that which he just spoke while also ignoring the fact that Paull also taught us that we are to 'establish' the Law of God by doing it through faith just as Abraham 'established' the Law of God by doing it through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
We are sons and daughters of God through the begotten Son of God and therefore, as He did, we are to do likewise so that through the Son, we also can be transformed into the likeness of the Father.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Therefore, according to Scripture Mike Hoggard is a LIAR and a FALSE PROPHET!
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Now I implore the readers to remember, these are NOT my words or accusations, these are the words and accusations of God the Father and His only begotten Son that Hoggard claims to represent yet in the same breath Hoggard denies both the Father and the Son. Therefore, in denying that the WHOLE Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation is for ALL mankind, Hoggard is denying the very existence of the authority of God the Father and His only begotten Son and creating his own authority upon the earth with a new Gospel message of lawlessness towards God the Father that the only begotten Son of God never taught or preached.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
I said I like it best for its ease of understanding but I never said it was not without fault because it is, just as every English version of Scripture contains to a degree some fault, because they have all had the hands of biased men in their translation. And that is where the ‘helper’ of John 14-17 comes in!
“How can one call out a false prophet without pointing our his heresy?”
How about you follow the procedure give by Jesus in Matthew 18, and go quietly to him to explain to him your problem with his teaching. If he doesn’t listen, go with some of your brethren to establish at the mouth of several witnesses that he is recalcitrant. If that doesn’t work bring him before the entire church (but, of course, you consider the entire church heretical).
The fact is, your statement above is begging the question, since you assume Sunday is a heretical day for worship and rest, and therefore Hoggard is a false prophet. It is not established by anyone except a few that Sunday is indeed heretical.
I find Hoggard obnoxious for throwing muck at the Sabbath Keepers and I find you obnoxious for throwing capitalized muck the other direction.
Peter defined heresy in 2 Peter 2:1, where the word “even...” can mean, “that is to say...”. It had nothing to do with special days or observances, but with the 100% efficacy of Jesus Christ’s work in earth and in heaven.
I suspect you see yourself 100% dependent on Christ’s work on your behalf, right? And you are talking about the Christ of the Bible, not some gnostic fabrication, right? Then how can I condemn you for heresy. We can discuss differences about how we worship the only Lord who saves us. We can discuss the role of works and perhaps even differ on them. We can discuss a lot of things.
But it is an arrogance of power to thunder condemnation on others who share the same precious faith. It will have consequences. I suspect that you may not believe that.
I also do not believe the Words of Jesus to be ‘Talmud’ as He is the Word of God and only spoke the Word of the God the Father. And I also do not equate Paul’s teachings or for that matter, any of the others to be Talmud as they never taught anything but the pure Word of God as exemplified to them by the Word of God that put on flesh.
“We” don’t have the words of Jesus.. We have what some tell us are the words of Jesus..
MAybe he said them in the context presented and maybe he didn’t..
Those words are what they are.. a “listeners” account to the words of Jesus account of them.. not the actual words..
Maybe in context maybe not.. some words may have been missed or even omitted..
Not that anything negative happened to the words.. but that was always possible.. Jesus didn’t recommend reading anyway(according to lore).. since most couldn’t read..
Jesus said got to the Holy Spirit.. and left the Holy Spirit in charge of this planet..
Actually the Jews forbade writing down the “words” of God.. for many centuries.. The knowledge was told in storys and memorized.. Thats what BarMitzvah was for and about.. before it degraded..
People do not need the Holy SPirit anymore, they have the Bible.. as replacement idol.. After all if you have the Bible what do you need the Holy Spirit for.. to ask him questions, you think, you already know?.. Or to gossip about some intellectual minutia?.. or to legitimize some rite or ceremony?..
Christians of today are not much different than the average Jew of the past or currently.. Pagan God-Lore worshippers..
Which I suppose is the way it should be, here on this planet, to make that choice..
They don’t know the Holy Spirit any more than they know the history of Barry HAlf-White the President.. and could care less.. The HS is like the Easter Bunny.. mentioned with a raised eyebrow..
This thread basically revolves around Hoggard cursing the Adventists and patlin cursing Hoggard.
Thank God you need not be smart for salvation...
Otherwise most Mormons, Adventists, Catholics, and Protestants would be out of luck.. maybe even some Baptists will make “it”..
Some kids are very smart but others are easier to get along with..
The mentally challenged are usually quite joyful..
I’ve never heard of him either.
I don’t know. Ask the Holy Spirit; He said it in the Bible (Isaiah 64:4-9). - WE can THINK we’re pretty “good”, and be all wet.
Why are you dragging the King James Version into it?
Institute for Scripture Research? Founded by 8 guys in South Africa.
What great credentials........
Why does it scream "cult"?
It’s in the article at the bottom.
All that to say, “Mike Hoggard is not a Sabbatarian.”
If you’re advocating getting yourself under the Mosaic Law; good luck . . but, be prepared to keep it ALL . . every jot, every tittle, every dietary requirement, everything . . because if you break one jot, or one tittle; or ever have broken one jot or one tittle, you are then guilty of breaking the WHOLE LAW - as bad as any adulterer, pornographer or politician. God’s GRACE, through the blood of Christ is the ONLY way, the only door.
And I thought my lack of understanding was some type of early onset senility.
And yet Jesus read from the Scripures in the synagouge.
You assume I didn't do that. You assume WRONG!!!
you assume Sunday is a heretical day
I don't assume anything, Scripture clearly teaches that Sunday is NOT the day God commanded and it is NOT the day that was the custom of Jesus to follow. At least the early Roman church fathers were honest enough to admit they changed the day and at least Roman Catholicism is to this day honest enough to admit that Sunday is the “mark” of her authority. If only Christians who follow Roman doctrines such as calendars and appointed holy days could humble themselves to see this truth.
Heresy is anything that is NOT of God. Jesus only taught that which was of God, nothing more and nothing less. The only bible they had during the time of Jesus was that which is left of Matthew, so wouldn't it behoove us to actually know it so to walk it as Jesus walked it and commanded us to do likewise?
The part of the ‘Book that is left of Matthew is not Jewish as the “hoggard false prophets’ claim it is, everything left of Matthew is 100% pure God and His Word who put on flesh and became our Messiah and it is,
“profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting straight, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of Elohim might be fitted, equipped for every good work.”
There is a very enlightening passage in Isaiah that the “church” tends to overlook when they spew their diatribes about how the ‘Jews” are blind. Well, how about the blindness that was placed upon the other half of Israel who was sent packing and became like the nations, the house of Ephraim? What does it say about those int he nations who look and act like gentiles but in His mercy He will again begin to gather them out of the nations and be a ‘light’ to the nations for Him once again? What about those gentile Israelites?
Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel,
And this is directly what Paul was speaking of in,
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And what is Paul also alluding to here in regards to us only knowing in part?
Rom 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
The Living Oracles that were first given at Mt Sinai, to the original congregation of God that Messiah came to restore.
Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the congregation in the wilderness with the messenger which spoke to him in Mt Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the living oracles to give unto us: 39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but rejected him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
They went to serve God as they pleased, disregarding the Word of God that had spoken to them to obey the commands of the Father. There was no new ‘church’ formed, there is merely the old that is being rebuilt and renewed for His 2nd coming. The entire world has been invited to join the congregation of God through the blood of the Lamb, the ENTIRE WORLD, just as it has been from the beginning. Nothing new, just simple truth that the church fails to see because of her blindness due to her disobedience.
And with that said, we LOVE the people, but we hate the false doctrine so in love we speak the truth to expose the lies of the false doctrine. That is what John teaches us that brotherly love is, it is tough love, but it is His true love.
I have five words for you:
Christian Emergency Medical Care Providers
Explain to them that they cannot work on the day you think is inappropriate. They choose their own Sabbath, their own day for worship.
I've got another one for you:
Preachers
Are you saying they cannot work on the Sabbath?
That is wholly untrue. The years may have been changed, the months may have been changed, but the days remain, and a week is still a week... The seventh day is the Sabbath of YHWH. What you know as Saturday.
First of all, the commandment to keep the Sabbath originates in Eden, not in Moses. The Israelis were likewise given (reminded of) the Sabbath prior to the giving of the Law (see manna).
The sabbath day has been recorded by the Jews all the way back to Yeshua's time - And Yeshua made no correction... He, and all his apostles and disciples kept the weekly Sabbath and all of YHWH's Holy Days. Any argument prior to His time is made moot by His example, and confirmed by His disciples.
If you honor Sunday as the sabbath, you bow to Rome, not YHWH, as the Roman church freely admits. It is the basis of her power made real, as she declares.
There was no mention of Abraham and the earlier Patriarchs keeping a special day called the Sabbath...none that I saw in the Bible.
How then can Abraham have kept YHWH's commandments and statutes (Gen 26:5)?
How is it that Noah knew what 'clean' animals were?
Folks forget that the Order of Melchizedek precedes Arron, and Abraham.
And it is the fact that the writings of the Brit remain pure and true to the Tanakh that separates the Brit from the Talmud.
Strawman argument Alert! Warning, Warning, Warning!!!
Luk 14:1 Now it happened, as He went into the house of one of the rulers of the Pharisees to eat bread on the Sabbath, that they watched Him closely. 2 And behold, there was a certain man before Him who had dropsy. 3 And Jesus, answering, spoke to the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” 4 But they kept silent. And He took him and healed him, and let him go. 5 Then He answered them, saying, “Which of you, having a donkey or an ox that has fallen into a pit, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?”
And yet Jesus read from the Scriptures in the synagogue.
If Jesus had to “read” then he was not “GOD”.. and not omniscient..
course a real “God” could do most anything, even read..
This argument is dumb.
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