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To: rusty schucklefurd
"Even if you take the Catholic position that Peter IS the Rock upon which the Church is built, Peter is NOT the Church personified."

I suppose my thoughts are that Peter is NOT the Rock upon which the Church is built. That Rock is Christ. And He is the Church personified. Without Him (and His sacrifice) there would be no Church. The Church could survive without Peter and there is no mention of any successors to the Apostles after they had deceased. Certainly no successor to the chair of Peter or a Pope. Paul considered himself no less equal than Peter. The very idea of a papacy is anti-Biblical as well as anything suggesting that anyone other than Christ is the foundation of the Church.

11 posted on 03/07/2013 1:11:29 PM PST by BipolarBob (Happy Hunger Games! May the odds be ever in your favor.)
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To: BipolarBob

re: “I suppose my thoughts are that Peter is NOT the Rock upon which the Church is built. That Rock is Christ. And He is the Church personified. Without Him (and His sacrifice) there would be no Church. The Church could survive without Peter and there is no mention of any successors to the Apostles after they had deceased. Certainly no successor to the chair of Peter or a Pope. Paul considered himself no less equal than Peter. The very idea of a papacy is anti-Biblical as well as anything suggesting that anyone other than Christ is the foundation of the Church.”

I completely agree with your statment above. I am not Catholic and though I believe Peter to have been a great influence on the early church - I agree with you that he was not the “Rock” Jesus spoke about. I guess I am confused about your orignial question about the getes of Hell prevailing in Peter’s denial.


13 posted on 03/07/2013 5:29:19 PM PST by rusty schucklefurd
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To: BipolarBob
Certainly no successor to the chair of Peter or a Pope. Paul considered himself no less equal than Peter. The very idea of a papacy is anti-Biblical as well as anything suggesting that anyone other than Christ is the foundation of the Church.

There are precedents for leadership succession in the Old Testament.

An example:

"Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the Lord had commanded Moses". Deut. 34:9

Jesus refers to the "chair of Moses" (a precedent for the chair of Peter) in Matthew 23.

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not." Matthew 23:1-3

Jesus is the cornerstone; the apostles (led by Peter) were the foundations.

"Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone..." Eph. 2:20

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations: and in them the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Rev. 21:14

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:18-19

The keys were given to Peter, not Paul. Stewardship is passed to each successor of Peter in his turn.

15 posted on 03/07/2013 7:57:35 PM PST by BlatherNaut
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