Posted on 02/05/2013 6:54:39 AM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
Many saw Jesus ascend into heaven on the Mount. Before this, Jesus told them to tarry in Jerusalem where they would be endued with power. Not many days afterwards, on the Day of Pentecost, tongues of fire appeared above those who had assembled together, and they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance.
Now, a question that I have asked more than one person is this: were those who spake with tongues saved (believers) before the Day of Pentecost or before the moment they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance?
If these believers were already saved before they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance, then this means that one does not have to speak in tongues in order to go to heaven.
Secondly, this means that their speaking in tongues was a separate, subsequent, distinct act from them becoming part of the body of Christ, as they were already saved - believers (and thus a part of and the formers of the body) - before the Day of Pentecost, and before they spake with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance.
Third, this means that the body of Christ (made up of believers) was already formed before the Day of Pentecost.
Again, were they already saved before the Day of Pentecost? It seems to boil down to that question...
You do realize God is outside of time? God knows the beginning, middle and the end. He knows who will eventually end up being “saved.”
From the human perspective this happens at some “time” in our lives.
That’s not the divine perspective.
You are trying to reconcile the two. You can’t.
But it is Biblical truth.
We are all sinners — so once saved/always saved doesn’t work.
Completely invalid conclusion ...
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have (present active indicative) eternal life.
If you could loose eternal life ... it wouldnt be eternal.
What was distinctive here at Pentecost was the baptism with holy spirit as promised earlier. Thus that body of 120 souls became a spirit begotten body, the body of Christ according to 1 Cor. 12:12-27.
It’s ludicrous to speak of someone as being ‘saved’ before they’re dead. They haven’t undergone Judgement.
Unless you are currently in heaven please do not claim to be ‘saved’. Presumption is one of the two sins against Hope (the other one being Despair).
They were saved the moment Jesus died on the cross to pay for their sins because they believed He was the Son of God. They didn’t even have to wait for Him to defeat death and rise again. His blood covered all sin.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.”
Speaking in Tongues was a gift of the Spirit not a requirement for salvation.
You must preface that remark ... the church, the body of Christ is made up of New Testament believers ... why?
Because THE distinguishing mark of a believer in Jesus Christ, verses an OT believer, is the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
It is the sealing of the Spirit ... the permanent indwelling in the Christians life. The OT saints did not have the permanent indwelling of the Spirit. When did that permanent indwelling begin? Pentecost. Therefore ... the church began at Pentecost because the permanent indwelling began at Pentecost.
He also knows what our free-will choices are, right?
With omniscience, there’s not a lot He doesn’t know. ;-)
Bump for later
Just to mix things up today, do you believe God cannot be wrong in His omniscience?
I think omniscience precludes error.
So if right now (wrt our sense of time) God knows you’re going to do something in the future, which of course you don’t know, does that mean you will do that something?
Perhaps from God’s perspective, you have already done it even though from our perspective it hasn’t happened yet.
Apparently, I will choose to do so.
Nope...Prior to Romans chapter 3, faith plus works was required for salvation...
It was given to Paul to reveal to the church that faith without works by grace was the only way for salvation for the church from that point on...
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Does God’s omniscience work even before we are born?
No...What's really ludicrous is people preaching bible truth when it's clear those people don't even know what God says in his bible...
We Christians have already gone thru Judgment...
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
We have already been raised up with Jesus Christ; we have already been saved and we are seated, right now, with Jesus Christ in heavenly places...
I realize that probably makes no sense whatsoever to you but that is not my fault nor God's fault...He wrote it...If you don't get it, you can only look to yourself and possibly your false teachers...
Unless you are currently in heaven please do not claim to be ‘saved’. Presumption is one of the two sins against Hope (the other one being Despair).
As you were just shown, we Christians ARE currently in heaven...
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
We are sealed with the Holy Spirit...And no one can break the seal...And just like when you buy a house and put earnest money on it (that can not be refunded), the Holy Spirit 'in us' is God's earnest money...He paid the down payment...The sale is complete...When our bodies are redeemed, the Closing takes place...
Did it change as he was writing the letter, or did it change for each congregation as they read the letter?
Do you think God’s omniscience works even before we are born?
What do you mean by “God’s omniscience works”? Are you asking if my birth changed the status of God’s ability to know everything?
It did not.
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