Pope: Everyone, Even Atheists, Want to See the Face of God

Asia News ^ | 1/16/13

[marshmallow]

General audience, Benedict XVI defines the Incarnation as "something unimaginable, the face of God can be seen, the process that began with Abraham is fulfilled." The Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, he asks "for the great gift" to "proclaim together that Jesus is the Savior of the world."

Vatican City (AsiaNews) - "The desire to know the face of God is in every man, even the atheists," but this desire is only realized by following Christ, in whom, in the Incarnation, "something unimaginable took place, the journey that began with Abraham is fulfilled. He is the Son, the fullness of all Revelation; the mediator who shows us the face of God. "

And "to proclaim together that Jesus is the Saviour of the world" Benedict XVI asked for incessant prayers for "the great gift" of Christian unity in the forthcoming week, which begins on the 18th of this month.

Previously, in his catechesis, he again reflected on the meaning of Christmas, in a commentary on John's Gospel in which the apostle Philip asks Jesus to show them the Father. The answer of Jesus, "introduces us to the heart of the Church's Christological faith; For the Lord says: "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father" (Jn 14:9).This expression summarizes the novelty of the New Testament, the novelty that appeared in the cave of Bethlehem: God can be seen, he showed his face is visible in Jesus Christ".

The theme of "seeking the face of God" is present throughout the Old Testament, so much so that the Hebrew term "face", occurs no less than 400 times, 100 of which refer to God." The of Jewish religion which the religion forbids all images, "for God can not be depicted," and "can not be reduced to an object," tells us that "God...

[CynicalBear]

Wow! Did you miss the point of that one. The verse I used showed that people can “resist” though you have said they can’t because if God wills something it will happen. The rest of your post made absolutely no sense as it pertains to the discussion.

And why did you ignore the verses that state it’s God’s will that no one be lost. If God’s will is always done is it your contention that no one will be lost or go to hell? I’ve seen you make that statement but couldn’t believe that you meant it the way it looked. You now have a chance to clarify. Do you believe God’s will that all will come to Him will happen and that no one will go to hell?

[fabian]

we can find him within easily now using this silent method... fhu.com...which the church has lost.

[P-Marlowe]

A stipulated 100% operative and free human will has no power to regenerate the dead.

So are you maintaining the existence of a true Free Will?

Does a Human Free Will have the power to change History of the destiny of others? Did Ted Bundy's Free Will change the destiny of his victims or were they predestined according to the will of God to die at his hands?

Is Obama president because of his own free will and the free will of those who elected him or is it because it was God's Will?

[HarleyD]

No I didn't miss the point. I understand completely. I keep repeating and repeating and repeating this over and over and over....

GOD CALLS TO ALL PEOPLE EVERY DAY. PEOPLE DO RESIST GOD. EVERYBODY RESISTS GOD. EVERY DAY.

That is NOT the issue.

WE CANNOT RESIST GOD WHEN HE TURNS AND CALLS US TO FOLLOW HIM.

I think there is no clearer example of this than Paul. Did Paul have the capacity to say no to God?

As for the rest of my post, I'd have to reread it.

Do you believe God’s will that all will come to Him will happen and that no one will go to hell?

Where are earth did you get this? There are children of God (the elect) and there are children of wrath (the unsaved). The children of God go to heaven the children of wrath go to hell. The children of God want to go to heaven and worship God. The children of wrath do NOT want to worship God and they would rather be in hell then worshipping God. That's a lot better than saying God is going to throw them into eternal torment because they failed to make the right choice in their 60+ year lifespan. It's scriptural and consistent with the nature of our loving God.

[HarleyD]

Did Ted Bundy's Free Will change the destiny of his victims or were they predestined according to the will of God to die at his hands?

Was God surprised at the murder of Ted Bundy's victims. Didn't God know this would happen since He looked down that time tunnel and saw it? Better yet, why did He do nothing to prevent it?

[CynicalBear]

>> Where are earth did you get this?<<

Maybe from this?

• Thursday, January 24, 2013 4:48:52 AM • 108 of 238
HarleyD to metmom

God's will IS done. God's will is ALWAYS done. All men will be saved just like our Lord will draw all men to Himself (John 12:32).

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,

Joh 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

[P-Marlowe]

Why didn’t you answer the question before asking a bunch of questions in response?

Can you answer the question I asked?

[CynicalBear]

I, and I am sure others here, hear you saying two different things. First you insist there is no free will. Than you insist that people can and do resist God even to the point of being consigned to hell. You say that God’s will is always done and that all men will be saved because it’s God’s will. Then you post that men who are not called will go to hell even though scripture says that it’s God’s will that all men would be saved.

It’s pretty hard to pin point what it is exactly that you really believe. I’m not sure you really know other than what you are getting from the Calvinist doctrines which I’m not to sure you understand. I for one am getting a really mixed message.

[metmom]

Perhaps I'm not being clear. I know that hell was created for the devil and his angels. But if God could look down the time tunnel and see what would happen, knowing Adam would fall, why would He do that as a loving God?

Why would He do that as the Calvinist God? Why would He create men for the purpose of sending them to hell?

God created man in His image for fellowship with Him. Is it loving to make men for the purpose of sending them to hell?

The God portrayed by Calvinism is too much like the God portrayed by Catholicism - harsh, unloving, condemning, capricious.

[metmom]

1 Thessalonians 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit.

Hebrews 3:15 As it is said,“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

Hebrews 4:6-7 6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,“Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.”

[metmom]

No I didn't miss the point. I understand completely. I keep repeating and repeating and repeating this over and over and over....

GOD CALLS TO ALL PEOPLE EVERY DAY. PEOPLE DO RESIST GOD. EVERYBODY RESISTS GOD. EVERY DAY.

That is NOT the issue.

WE CANNOT RESIST GOD WHEN HE TURNS AND CALLS US TO FOLLOW HIM.

Well, maybe you understand how two totally contradictory statements can both be true at the same time, but I sure don't.

On one hand, you're saying people resist God every day. On the other hand, you say we can't.

WHICH IS IT?

[HarleyD]

Maybe from this?

How does this makes the claim that I stated there is no hell?

I see nothing inconsistent with my posts.

1) Every unsaved person resists God. They are slaves to sin.

2) Men cannot resist God when He calls to them. They become slaves to righteousness

3) God will save all men. But "all" does not mean every single person. The definition of "all", to be consistent with all scripture, MUST be viewed as the elect. Our Lord states this with His sheep.

4) God's will will be done. The reason people are not saved is because they have not been chosen. God's sheep hear His voice. The Father gives us to Christ. We don't choose.

This can be viewed in no other way. God has elected some and others He has past over. And less we might think of this as being cruel of God, we need to be cautious to understand this is all set up by a loving and caring Father who knows what is best for His creation.

[metmom]

3) God will save all men. But "all" does not mean every single person. The definition of "all", to be consistent with all scripture, MUST be viewed as the elect. Our Lord states this with His sheep.

Well, then, doesn't it strike you as a bit dishonest that God would say *ALL* but not really mean *ALL* all, out only some all?

Hello, if He meant only the elect, why didn't He say the elect instead of ALL?

Certainly God is more capable of clarity than that.

[CynicalBear]

>> How does this makes the claim that I stated there is no hell?<<

I didn’t say that you stated there is no hell. I showed where you said that ALL men will be saved. Look at you post again.

Thursday, January 24, 2013 4:48:52 AM • 108 of 238
HarleyD to metmom

God's will IS done. God's will is ALWAYS done. All men will be saved just like our Lord will draw all men to Himself (John 12:32).

[CynicalBear]

I never get any answers to those types of verses. Have you gotten any. I haven’t seen them.

[Dutchboy88]

"I’m sensing that you are putting more importance on the differences in belief about predestination than what I believe is needed. While I agree that no one can take credit in any way for believing or accepting God’s calling I do believe there are those who can take blame for not accepting God’s call or “resisting”.

I think you had better go back and read my posts again. No where did I say the “they chose God” and to infer or project into what I said is disingenuous."

Again, apologies, for missing your point. I have re-read the posts and find that I was confused by some of your comments and must have drawn wrong conclusions. Perhaps if I describe what I notice, you can clear it up for me.

In your statements, a person cannot choose God (and I gather you mean "unaided"). But, if called they can resist God's call, landing them in a group which was being chosen to choose Him, but resisting this call. That is, you apparently agree, only some are given the opportunity to believe, but among those some will actually turn down the offer. The rest are lost anyway.

Thus, we have (if I understand you correctly) three groups in mankind.

1. The chosen (the aided) who follow through and believe.

2. The chosen (the aided) who resist and don't believe.

3. The unchosen (the unaided) who don't believe.

Do I have this much right? If not, help me get the picture you see painted in the Scriptures. I certainly do not want to "project" wrong information into your posts.

[Dutchboy88]

"That's a pretty powerful text (Jn 6:44ff). And our Lord Jesus told it to the Jews-not the disciples"

HarleyD, you are cracking this out of the park! The panoramic view you are giving of the real Gospel is spot on. Thanks for the excellent remarks.

[metmom]

God's will IS done. God's will is ALWAYS done. All men will be saved just like our Lord will draw all men to Himself (John 12:32).

Every sheep will hear our Shepard's voice. Those who are not our Lord's sheep will not hear His voice. It's that simple. So all men who God has chosen or appointed will be saved. So all men who God has chosen or appointed will hear the Shepard's voice. You can understand this no other way. Otherwise carried to a flawed conclusion you'll end up with 1) God is not omnipotent, 2) the books of John, Romans and 2/3 of the Old Testament becomes "irrelevant" or "a mystery", or 3) a doctrine of purgatory.

All or some?

God draws all men to Himself.

If it's God's will that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth and He goes to the effort of drawing all men to Himself, then why aren't all men saved?

[CynicalBear]

>> But, if called they can resist God's call, landing them in a group which was being chosen to choose Him, but resisting this call.<<

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

So did He not really mean that? Did He mean that but forgot to call them? If God’s wills that all men be saved and then, per the Calvinist, all who He calls will follow which is it?

2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

So Christ died for all but not really for all but only those who God calls? But God’s will is that all men be saved but not all men will be saved because why?

>> That is, you apparently agree, only some are given the opportunity to believe, but among those some will actually turn down the offer. The rest are lost anyway.<<

Calvin in his later days wrote in regard to I John 2:2 as follows: "Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and in the goodness of God is offered unto all men without distinction, His blood being shed not for a part of the world only, but for the whole human race; for although in the world nothing is found worthy of the favor of God, yet He holds out the propitiation to the whole world, since without exception He summons all to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than the door unto hope."<<

I Timothy 4:10. "For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe."

If God sent Jesus to atone for ALL men’s sins, and wills that all men are saved do you still say He only calls a few?

[CynicalBear]

>>HarleyD, you are cracking this out of the park! The panoramic view you are giving of the real Gospel is spot on. Thanks for the excellent remarks.<<

You can’t be serious. First it’s stated that, and I quote “God's will IS done. God's will is ALWAYS done. All men will be saved just like our Lord will draw all men to Himself (John 12:32).

Then in the same post it’s stated, and again I quote, ” Those who are not our Lord's sheep will not hear His voice.” and ” God will save those who He has mercy on according to His grace.”

I’ve seen nothing but double speak.